>
> > So, under no circumstances can Finnic tribes have lived closer to
> > where Tacitus places the Fenni?
Â
> GK: Ptolemy also places them pretty far north in his chapter on
> Germania: in Scandia to be precise, north of the Gautae.
> Schutte has a theory about the presence of "Finni" below the Goths
> on the Vistula. He thinks that particular sequence applies to the
> Baltic coast and was artificially positioned further south. I don't
> particularly agree with this version, but there is something else of
> value in his analyses. He has shown that the "Ptolemy constructor"
> very frequently misplaces or "double places"Â individual peoples
> (lots of examples). So independently of the archaeological
> difficulties, one has to ask why the "Finni" of the Vistula should
> be exempted from such an interpretation. Have a look at his
work and
> see which other alleged misplacements you would disagree with.
>
These are the linguistic reasons I think there existed a 'Southern Finnic' group:
/cut for economy GK/
****GK: I don't question any of this. The problem remains as to whether Ptolemy's "Finni" south of the Goths represent such a group in a late time frame. Your linguistic arguments have no conclusive applicability here. They refer to a situation long gone, when those who had assimilated them were themselves being assimilated. The counterpoints are not only that Ptolemy also places Finns in the north, again very close to "Goths" (Gautae), but that archaeologically the only cultures we know for that period south of the Vistula Goths are the LaTenized ones. So we would need to hold that Ptolemy's "Finni" were somehow included. Which means not only that these Finns had culturally nothing in common with Tacitus' Finns as discussed in Germania, but also that the groups whence they evolved had also abandoned similar or related cultures (to those described by Tacitus) for hundreds of years (the
source cultures of LaTenized groups have no known affinities to those of the Finnic areas further north). A Ptolemean displacement seems more likely. Somehow I doubt the Finnic dialects were well enough known at that time for authors such as Tacitus or Ptolemy or others to recognize "Finns" akin to the less developed northern groups in LaTenized populations, and label them appropriately.*****