PLACE NAMES WITH -HAM, -THORP, & SHIRE was Re: Schoeffe I

Dear George,

I have been trying to follow your lengthy exchange with Torsten. Sometimes I get a little bit confused. It is, at times, very difficult to discern which of you is writing. Especially with long quotations. So, I hope you won't mind if I ask a few questions regarding this thread. Such as when you say the following:

GEORGE (his quote: in black font, and red font for emphasis) wrote: "All written material (from a long period of time = centuries) show that the place names with this ending are a quite late occurrence. (Usually such options are... Whimsical. Look at the map: where do you find most of Germanic place names ending in -ham? Practically only in England and Bavaria+Austria although in all Germanic countries -ham (< heim) has been known."

ISHINAN (my inquiry: in blue font and red font for emphasis):

1. When you say "quite late occurrence", can you provide an approximate date/time?

2. When you say "usually such options are . . . Whimsical", are you disagreeing with your first statement?

3. What does it tell you where you have a culture which has place names ending in -ham(*1), or -thorp (*2) or -shire (* 3) ? What conclusion do you draw from these occurrences?

Thank you in advance for your response.

Ishinan

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(FOOTNOTES) I.E. ETYMOLOGIES:

(*1) HOME O.E. Ham "dwelling, house, estate, village," from P.Gmc. *khaim- (cf. O.Fris. Hem "home, village," O.N. Heimr "residence, world," heima "home," Ger. Heim "home," Goth. Haims "village"), from PIE base *tkei- "to lie, settle down" (cf. Skt. Kseti "abides, dwells," Armenian shen "inhabited," Gk. Kome, Lith. Kaimas "village;" O.C.S. Semija "domestic servants"). 'Home' in the full range and feeling of [Modern English] home is a conception that belongs distinctively to the word home and some of its Gmc. Cognates and is not covered by any single word in most of the IE languages. [Buck]

-hám, es; m. 'The Latin word which appears most nearly to translate it is vicus, and it seems to be identical in form with the Greek &omega-tonos;. In this sense it is the general assemblage of the dwellings in each particular district, to which the arable land and pasture of the community were appurtenant, the home of all the settlers in a separate and well defined locality, the collection of the houses of the freemen. Whenever we can assure ourselves that the vowel is long, we may be certain that the name implies such a village or community,' Cod. Dipl. Kmbl. Iii. Xxviii-ix. The distinction between -ham and -hám seems to have been lost before the Norman Conquest, as in the Chronicle one MS. Has tó Buccingahamme, another tó Buccingahám, 918; Th. I. 190, col. 1, 2, l. 21. [Icel. -heimr, e.g. Álf-heimr the abode of the
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