Re: PIE *ºnbh-ro- 'cloud, mist'

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" <oalexandre@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@> wrote:
> >
> > Looking at what are "generally" taken as cognates: L imber ; G
> �mbros 'rain(storm)' ; S abhr�- 'cloud' ; Gaul Ambris '(name >
> of river)' ; I see no -a- or any -V- between the nasal and bH or any ev.
> that the nasal is -n- not -m- (the G might even be ev. for > -m- (since
> m, > � ( > � in many), the exact details of C, > [] in G
> aren't fully understood, and there's some ev. for
> > gemination in some env. (maybe �nnea)); but not clear enough).
> Why would PIE -a- disappear everywhere but Italic, and in > only one
> part of it (or -x- fail to voc., or whatever you might think). Your
> commitment to taking a view opposite mine no
> > matter what the evidence is impressive. However, I think you should
> reexamine the ev. or at least tell me how they could be > cognate, or
> what the etymon was, etc.
> >
> In PIE *ºnbh-ro- 'cloud, mist ' the nasal is a "syllablic" ºn.
> The native Greek output of this root is aphrós 'foam', with
> ómbros being surely a Pelasgian loanword much in the same way than
> túmbos is to the native táphos.

I see no reason to believe that Greek túmbos should not be related to L tumulus , OIr tomm , etc. The IE root is well-established (L tume:re , etc.) and G táphos , etc. , are from th- (compare thapto: 'bury') from dh- in PIE (Ar damban / dambaran ) so no t- < dh- should be expected in Pelasgian, however you mean the word. The G words w toph- / taph- show variation from a syllablic nasal that can not possibly come from borrowing and also appears in words like óphis / ékhis (the previously studied m > õ ( > ã ) is the simplest of a variety of N > V changes I've studied and part of the reason I suggested ómbros was native Greek and related as above).

G aphrós likely doesn't come from the word you gave, comparing Ar pHrpHur ; ? >> G porphúra: , etc. A dis. from * phaphrós is one immediately apparent possibility, though not the one I have posited.

>
> Please don't assume every word within an IE language, even with a PIE
> etymology, has to be inherited.
>

I made no such assumption, yet I have never found any ev. for a word of non-IE origin. There are words borrowed from other IE languages, rather than directly inherited, as you might have already implied above.