Re: Tudrus

At 4:42:12 PM on Saturday, January 8, 2011, Torsten wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> <bm.brian@...> wrote:

>> At 4:43:38 AM on Saturday, January 8, 2011, Torsten wrote:

>>> Da. dial. (Sønderjysk, Schleswig) stå/stær, gå/gær
>>> Dutch staan/staat, gaan/gaat
>>> German stehen/steht, gehen/geht
>>> "stand/stands", "go/goes"

>>> which make me suspect those two verbs originally umlauted
>>> in the 2/3 sg.pres.

>> They probably did. Apparently they're contracted presents
>> in *-ji- ~ *-ja- (from *-ye- ~ *-yo-), with PGmc. outcomes
>> *stai- ~ *sta- and *gai- ~ *ga-. The first stem alternant
>> ought to appear in the 2/3 sg. pres. (e.g., *staisi,
>> *staiþi), the second in the 1/3 pl. (e.g., *stamaz,
>> *stanþi). The 2 pl. should have been *staiþ, the inf.
>> *stanã, and the 1 sg. *st? (*sto::).

>> OSax. has very few attestations of either verb, but those
>> few seem to show remnants of this reconstruction: 2 sg.
>> <stes>; 3 sg. <ged>, <sted>, <steid>; 3 pl. <stad>; inf.
>> <gan>, <stan>. (That's the entire list of attested forms.)

> LG steit, geit is what I heard.

It's a safe bet that you didn't hear any Old Saxon, though!

> More likely seems to me an origin in 'long-vowel verbs',
> from a kind of impersonal '4sg' in -i alone, cf Greek 3sg
> pherei, cf Dutch draai-, gooi-, Grm dreh-, NW dial gouw-
> "turn", "throw", later 'normalized' with a 3sg -t suffix:
> draait, gooit.

drehen < drāan < *þrēanã; originally Class VII, *þrēanã,
*þeþrō, *þeþrōun, *þrēanaz. In German, unlike English, it
was transferred to the weak verbs, though a strong ppart. is
found as late as MHG.

> I'd venture the same origin for Eng. stay.

It's a borrowing from French.

Brian