Re: Grammatical Gender

> I will still claim that the suffix is individuating not collectivizing: it produces something unitary (note old 3sg verbs for NPlNom -a:) out of something plural. It became feminine not actively, but by being gradually excluded from the Masc. gender because of its other sense as diminutive (which can't be used for important men: no 'prezzie' for President or 'primie' for Prime Minister). For some reason it is similar in its use to a Semitic *-at- suffix (IIRC), but I think the original source in non-Anatolic IE is Finno-Permic or whatever lay under that: the suffix occurs also in FP tree names
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/64751

More correctly, "a suffix with no particular resemblance occurs in Baltic Finnic in tree names, some of whose roots are of Uralic heritage".

> (the -v-, -j-, -k- are regular reflexes of *-ŋ- in Finno-Ugric).

Not quite, PFU itself still had *ŋ, and there is no soundlaw -ŋ- > -k- in any of its descendants. Mordvinic *s´eleŋ is form'd with a separate diminutiv -ŋ (not restricted to tree names; even productiv IIRC).

> The willow name, probably taken from the same language which gave us the *-aŋ- suffix, would be *saŋ-al-aŋ-, from *saŋ- "wet hole (to the other side)", the adjectivizing suffix *-al- and the individuating *-aŋ- suffix (our topic).
>
> Torsten

The FU evidence does not allow for an intervening syllable a la _saCVl_, nor an original meaning of _willow_ (all but BF have "elm"), nor a non-palatal *s-.

Just for the record, for the benefit of rest of the list.

John Vertical