From: stlatos
Message: 65812
Date: 2010-02-08
>Not all of João's questions were answered, so I replied. I found the old message when searching for something else about Celtic gods.
> At 11:04:23 PM on Tuesday, February 2, 2010, stlatos wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Gwinn"
> > <sonno3@> wrote:
>
> His post is ten years old, and I believe that Chris left
> Cybalist a while back.
> >> Gilfathwy or Gilfaethwy. Once again, an uncertain name -I'm not the one who came up with this, though I agree with it. I don't remember where I first saw it, but you could probably find something on the Internet about it.
> >> Gilfaethwy looks like the preferrable form. The -f- can
> >> stand for a -b-, -m-, or -u-, the -aethwy from -axteios
> >> (-axt from PIE -ag-t-, -ap-t- or -abh-t) and the -i- from
> >> an original Brittonic -u-, so we may have
> >> *Gul[o]baxteios, *Gul[o]maxteios or *Gul[o]uaxteios.
> >> Perhaps the first element is related to Gaulish Gulba
> >> "peak/beak" and -aethwy from -axt (PIE -ag-t-)
> >> "works/does/leads." The -wy suffix comes from a Celtic
> >> -ei-os which is found sometimes as a patronymic.
>
> I'm not sure that PCelt. *gulbV- 'beak' will work here: I
> may be missing something, but it seems to me that it should
> yield <Gylf...> as in Welsh <gylf> 'beak, bill'.
>
> > This is definitely 'child/servant of [Math]'.
>
> What have you for such a <Gil-> element in British?
> >> Gofannon comes from *Gobantonos "the divine smith." I amThere is no reason, which is why I said he was wrong and ignored historical evidence. Similarly, there was no *ri:gantona:, even though this theory has been spread widely.
> >> unaware at the moment of the PIE root which gives Celtic
> >> gobant-o "smith."
>
> Why *gobant- rather than *goban(n)- or the like?
> > No, this once again ignores historic evidence. None ofWhat are you talking about? I'm arguing against Christopher Gwinn's positing of *gobant-, as you seem to be doing as well.
> > the ancient names related to this support such a form.
>
> The basic shape of the PCelt. etymon is pretty clear, so the
> obvious conclusion is that you're wielding your shoehorn too
> vigorously again.
> > *gYón.u+ 'bend, curve, curved horn'Since the words for 'knee' and 'chin' were seen to both contain *gYen- it was theorized that they both came from a root 'bend, curve' (this happened long before I made my own reconstructions).
>
> The 'knee' word?! The gloss doesn't really fit the cognates
> that I know, ...
> > *gYón.u+mYHó+ 'little curved horn, nail'The word usually rec. *gYombHo+ has often been given as the source of Gobannus (there is no other plausible origin, and the only problem is the existence of -m- in one and -n- in the other (the second < *-ixYn.os (and in the word for 'god' < -n.os 'god', common in Celtic, (usually dissimilated so the word is identical to 'smith', or else dissimilated n-n>l, etc.), but my rec. of *gYombHo+ < *gYón.u+mYHó+ takes care of that, (there is no ev. that -mb- must come from PIE -mb- instead of -nb-, etc.) as well as other problems for names in other branches). You can judge the range of meanings below, which have been given as "tooth or toothlike object" before me; I see no problem with what I wrote:
>
> ... a better gloss would make it a bit hard to justify
> 'nail', even if that were a plausible route to 'smith'.
> > This last word underwent many opt. changes, includingFor his crafts.
> > metathesis, to known Celtic forms, including Gebrinius, as
> > well as to Lith. Gabjaukuras \ Gabjauge: \ Gabjauja \
> > Gabjaugis \ Gabjàujis, Jagaubis.
>
> Trying to squeeze <Gebrinius> into this soup makes no sense
> at all, either formally or semantically: he's identified
> with Mercury
> Balto-Slavic and Indo-European Linguistics. His suggestionThat seems impossible, since the *dHabHros explanation works fine, only *gWH > f- in L and there is no evidence for gw- in 'smith', etc.
> that Lat. <faber> and PCelt. *gob-ens/ns-(n-) might have a
> common PIE root is interesting.