Re: *san,- , "judged"?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:

>
> Ahh, maybe I should have tried to related it to *sen- "old, elder, alderman, senator" as in the notion that age makes us wiser, able to "judge"

More likely the oppposite direction "judge, senator, elder" -> "old".
Actually I think I found the sense "old" also outside of IE, in one of the sources I used, but I can't find it now.

>
> --- On Thu, 11/26/09, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, I posted that on the web about 12 years ago and although I've lost my Etruscan notes, I realize, as Glen Gordon said, this really is an "anti-dictionary" in that I put in everything I could find, to let the more knowledgeable figure it out. My thoughts were that the original root was similar in meaning to Arabic Haram "forbidden, sanctuary"  e.g. al-aHram "the Pyramids of Gizeh", etc, 
> --- On Thu, 11/26/09, Torsten <tgpedersen@... com> wrote:

That az96 guy is *very* creative.

> From: Torsten <tgpedersen@... com>

> http://etruscans1.tripod.com/Language/EtruscanSA.html
> sac-, Sac-, sac-a, sac-ri "carrying out a sacred act, to
> consecrate" [g/lb83, mp68, dep, pa]
> sacni "priest" [g/lb83 77]
> "consecration" [mp68: 263]
> Sacni "to cover" [az96]
> sacni, sacniu, Sacni-cn, Sacni-tn,
> Sacni-cla, Sacni-tle, Sacni-cl-eri, Sacni-cS-treS
> "sacred place, sanctuary, consecrated" [mp68, pa, dep, gzb]
> Sacnic "cover" [az96]
> Sacnic cilth "sanctuary" [mp68: 263]
> Sacnic cith
> "tegimen apex, pointed hood for fulguriator and haruspex" [az96]
> sacnicleri "for the temple" [gm97]
> sacnisa, SacniSa, Sacnisa "consecrate, dedicate"
> [am91, g/lb83, 85: 161, mc91: 135, mp68: 263]
> "covered" > "buried" [az96]
> sacnitalte, sacnisa, sacniSa "to consecrate" [mp68]
> Sacnitle "covers (plural)" [az96]
> sacniu, sacniv "(has) covered" [az96]
> suc-, Suc-, Suc-i, Suc-ivn, Suc-ri "ritual act" [mp68]
> see Latin sacer "sacred, holy"
> [az96, g/lb83, 85: 161, mc91: 135, mp68: 263, gzb, dep, pa]
> see Greek hagios "holy" [dep]
> see Oscan sakoro "sacred" [dep]
> see Hittite saklai "custom" [dep]
> see Indo-European *sak- "to consecrate" [pa]
> < *steg-n- [az96]

> Couldn't match better

I wonder if it went like this
Donor language *san,-
Loaned into PPIE as *san,n-
-> *sakn-
-> PIE *sakr, *sakn- (ie. heteroclitic)

cf. Pokorny:
es-r.(gW), Gen. es-n-és "Blut"; alter r/n-Stamm.

Ai. ásr.k, ásr.t, Gen. asnáh. "Blut", asr.ja: RV. 3, 8, 4,
nachved. asra- n. ds.;

arm. ariun "Blut" (*esr.-);

gr. poet. éar, ei~ar (e:~ar Hes.) "Blut"
(wohl urgr. *e:~ar mit ders. Dehnstufe wie he:~par;
s. Schulze Qu. ep. 165f.);

alat. aser (asser), assyr "Blut",
assara:tum "Trank aus Wein und Blut gemischt"
(wohl aser mit einfachem s; vgl. WH. I 72);

lett. asins "Blut" (*esen-?), Pl. asinis;
vgl. dazu Trautmann Bsl. Wb. 14,
Mühlenbach-Endzelin Lett.-D. Wb. I 143;

toch. A ysa:r-

hitt. e-es^-har (eshar), Gen. eshanas.
WP. I 162, WH. I 72, 849, Meillet Esquisse2 39'

which is possibly the same word.

I think I recall that 'sanguis' "blood" had a cognate-looking counterpart in Turkic, can't locate it now; if the *san,- word is so widespread as the data in these postings indicate then they may be real cognates.


Torsten