From: Torsten
Message: 65461
Date: 2009-11-23
>Cf.
> > And we certainly shouldn't forget the most typical of all, those
> > from the whole *ka/unt- etc complex: Eng. hunt with original /u/
> > vs. Gothic hinþan, Sw hinna which are reorganized as a class III
> > strong verb.
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/62525
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/62572
>
> Re the Estonian comitative suffix -ga, did I mention the Latin
> postposition (with pronouns) -cum "with"?
>
> Which reminds me
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/6791
>
> Note Engl. and, German und; a/u alternation; form *(h)a/und-?
>
> As for the high decades in Gothic and OE: In some Gmc languages the
> ones are before the tens: German 'ein und siebzig' etc, in others
> it's the other way round: 'seventy one', or it might have been
> 'seventy and one'.
>
> There's your 'hund': someone left it on when there are zero ones.
>
> The 'hund' might as well be interpreted here as a comitative suffix
> as the word "and", or perhaps the historical development was just
> that: "crowd, war/hunting party" -> comitative suffix -> "and".
>
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/65061
> And now a quote:
> Lehmann: A Gothic Etymological Dictionary
> 'Þ61. þusundi cardinal number f io: Neh 7.34, pl þusundjos Mk 5.13
> khílioi, thousand; þusundi-faþs m i khilíarkhos officer, leader of
> a thousand, only nom sg J 18.12 and dat pl þusundifadaim Mk 6.21.
> Cf suffix in bruþfaþs. Use of suffix in hunda-faþs, þusundi-faþs,
> and *swnagoga-faþs, independent, not loan translation, despite
> similarity of formation; Iran þata-pati, Arm hariwra-pet centurion;
> Iran *hazahra-pati, Arm hazara-pet leader of a thousand; Arm
> z^ol/ovrda-pet ruler of the synagogue Benveniste 1963 BSLP 58:
> [art] 41ff,54-57.'
>
> Until I read Benveniste's article, I think I'll remain skeptical of
> the idea the Gothic is not a loan translation.
>
> Koryakova, Epimakhov
> The Urals and Western Siberia in the Bronze and Iron Ages
> pp. 213-214
> 'Social Organizations of Eurasian Nomads
> ...
> The military-potestal relations were in competence with the
> organization, usually called a "tribe." The tribe regulated contact
> with other tribes, to resolve political and military problems. The
> tribe could be of dual (left and right "wings") or triple (left and
> right wings plus a center), and was militarily organized by the
> decimal structure (i.e., units of thousands, hundred, and tens with
> a hierarchy of leaders) 4) (Taskin 1989). In peacetime, the
> dispersed character of the nomadic society did not require a great
> central power thus the power of the chiefs was not very
> significant, but in wartime, a central power was necessary. The
> amazing ability of nomads to create large armies in case of
> military danger or political contests is well known. A leader's
> personality should not be underestimated in the process of
> sociopolitical consolidation of nomadic societies. The history of
> the Hsiung-nu tribes is a good example. Cribb (1991: 55) stresses
> the territorial aspect of a tribe: "The tribe constitutes the
> operational unit through which units of population are matched to
> units of territory."
> '
>
> Like I said ;-)
> The "wing" aspect of *ka/unt-, the "people/tribe" aspect of it, the
> decimal system (of Germanic) intertwined with it.
> Also, if this was the primary use of *pot- "master", the unstressedCf.
> position explains the root /o/.
> At least we now know what kind of society the *ka/unt- root isTorsten
> from. Now why did Celts etc also use that organization (Tricassi
> etc)?
>