From: Torsten
Message: 65353
Date: 2009-11-02
>I think Douglas wanted to say 'ante-Saamic'. The 'hat' word is there too.
> > Pokorny's derivation of Gmc. *drenk- by nasalization of PIE
> > *dHreg^- is not bad. I see however that his *dHera:gH- (whence
> > 'draw' etc.) is only represented in Gmc. and Slavic, and /g/ in
> > the latter makes it hard to associate with *dHreg^- anyway. He
> > brings in *tragH- (Lat. <traho:>, <tra:gula>, etc.;
> > "dissimilation of spirants" in Proto-Latin from *dHra(:)gH- is ad
> > hoc).
> >
> > If your water-transport-word theory indeed holds water, perhaps
> > we are dealing with a PIE root *treh2- extended by *gH (thus no
> > root-restriction problem); this *treh2gH-, *tra:gH- (in IE
> > dialects losing aspiration, *tra:g-) might have been borrowed
> > into Proto-Lappic as *Dra(:)G-, then back into both Gmc. and
> > Slavic. Gutenbrenner suggested a similar mechanism for getting
> > 'boar' into Gmc. beside 'farrow' etc., *pork- or *park- being
> > borrowed into the adstrate language as *BarG-, then into Gmc.
> > Since I know little about Uralic, this appeal to "Proto-Lappic"
> > to get voiced fricatives may not itself hold water, however. It
> > is really just a wild guess.
> >
> > DGK
>
> This indeed is not quite watertight - if you mean Proto-Samic,
> these particular words do not exist, and neither do initial
> consonant clusters nor *B *G exist either. Moreover, there is no
> motivation to turn onset tenuis stops to voiced spirants - no
> Uralic language does that (the Samic distinction between *t *D is
> inherited). You could just as well go with an entirely unrelated
> substrate.
> What exactly is the "water transport theory" anyway? Torsten'sWell, it shifts with my mood. The *d/tr-an,W- (I think it is) root doesn't sit well with Uralic, what with that initial cluster. BTW is Estonian 'rong' "train" an invented word or bona fide U or FU?
> latest renames it "amber trail theory", but I thought this was
> supposed to cover all IE-Uralic interactions, not just those near
> the Baltic Sea.