Fw: Re: [tied] Re: Frankish origins

From: Torsten
Message: 65112
Date: 2009-09-24

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
>
> --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Torsten <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@... s.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@... s.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@... s.com, george knysh <gknysh@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Torsten <tgpedersen@ ...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The presence of Yazygi in Illyricum is noted and assumable
> > > > > from statements by Eusebius and Lucanus.
> > > > > http://tech. groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/65077
> > > > >
> > > > > GK: On second thought, I may have made an incorrect
> > > > > assumption here about Sarmatian intervention in this war. I
> > > > > don't know Eusebius' text, and Harmatta does not reference
> > > > > it. Perhaps the Sarmatians were not part of the Pannonian
> > > > > army after all and their "subjugation" by Tiberius a mere
> > > > > p.r. note by some Roman historian.
> > > >
> >
> > Here's the locus in the second part of Eusebius' Chronicon:
> > 7 CE: 'Tiberius Caesar drives back the Dalmatians and Sarmatians
> > into Roman authority.'
> > http://rbedrosian. com/jerome_ chronicle_ 03_part2. htm
>
>
> *****GK: Yes. I found it in Latin (Jerome's translation): "Tiberius
> Caesar Dalmatas, Sarmatasque in Romanam redigit potestatem." That
> sounds firm enough, but is it true? We don't know. It's not
> confirmed by other sources, and the editors of Eusebius point out
> that he was wrong on many counts. (Even here actually, he gives the
> wrong year). What I'd like to see is an annotated version with some
> commentaries. Neither Suetonius nor any other sources says this.
> And the victor title claimed (but not granted) by Tiberius

That's not what Suetonius says.

> was "Pannonicus" not "Sarmaticus".

Nor "Dalmaticus". He was the victor of the Bellum Pannonicum.

> I think old Eusebius was plain wrong (if he indeed wrote this) or
> else we need to interpret it differently. In any case this does not
> prove (even to Harmatta BTW) that Sarmatians had colonized
> Illyria.*****

Nor to me, for that matter, not to the exclusion of other scenarios. But I'll agree with Harmatta that their presence was possible.


> At the same time, Sarmatians were present in Moesia, according to Cassius Dio, Roman History, 55.29-30:
>
>
> ****GK: Yes. That too has been known for a long time, but it does
> nothing for you. Sarmatians had been making raids across the Danube
> since the late 2nd c. BCE...****

And always made sure to get the last ferry home?


Torsten