--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > Peter Schrijver
> > Lost Languages in Northern Europe
> > in: Early Contacts between Uralic and Indo-European
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > A second example of direct contact between the language of
> > geminates and a branch of Uralic is the Germanic word hand
> > (Gothic handus etc.) < Proto-Germanic *hand-. All attempts at an
> > Indo-European etymology of this word remain unconvincing (see
> > recently Kluge & Seebold 1989:353). Yet if we take Grimm's and
> > Verner's Laws into account, we may reconstruct *hand- as *kant-.
> > This looks strikingly like a cognate of Proto-Finno-Ugric *käti
> > 'hand, arm', but with a nasal infixed into the root. Since this
> > nasalization is not a feature of Finno-Ugric, or of Indo-European
> > (outside the nasal presents, that is), and since it is a feature
> > of the language of geminates, it is reasonable to conclude that
> > Finno-Ugric *käti was borrowed by the language of geminates, from
> > which it subsequently entered Germanic before Verner's Law and
> > Grimm's Law.
>
> I find it hard to believe that Proto-Germans would have assigned a
> loanword lacking final /u/ to the feminine /u/-declension, rather
> than one of the more common paradigms. During historical times the
> Gmc. fem. /u/-decl., never high in members, loses ground. Old High
> German has already brought 'hand' into the /i/-decl., although
> traces of the /u/-decl. persist in Old and Middle HG. In Old
> English, beside <hand> only a handful of fem. /u/-stems are in
> common use. Indeed if the substratal protoform was *ka(n)t-, the
> Proto-Germans must have appended a stressed feminine *-ú- in order
> for Verner's Law to yield Gmc. *hanðu-, whence Gothic <handus> and
> the rest. This is not merely implausible, but without parallel.
Why couldn't it be borrowed into PPGmc. as *kantú-?
> Identifying substratal loanwords in Germanic requires more than
> just throwing Grimm's and Verner's Laws at the alleged protoforms.
> The morphology of the attested forms must be considered as well.
> In this case I think that *handu- is an inherited Indo-European
> word of archaic formation.
How do we know those supposed archaic formation aren't chimeric, and actually belonging in the donor language? Anyway, that's what I'll propose.
> My best guess at a PIE protoform is *kóndHu- 'pincher, squeezer',
> from *kendH- 'to pinch, squeeze, compress', in turn an enlargement
> of *ken- 'compact, compressed'. This primary adjectival root is
> Pokorny's *ken-(1) (IEW 558) under which are listed mostly nominal
> extensions of zero-grade *kn-, and some words whose IE origin is
> doubtful (Sanskrit <kanda-> m. 'bulb'; Greek <kóndos> 'horn, ankle-
> bone', <kóndulos> 'knuckle'). Nevertheless the enlargement *kendH-
> 'to make compact, compress, squeeze' has a good parallel in *weidH-
> 'to make apart, divide, separate' from the adjectival root *wei-
> 'apart, disjoint, in two' (mostly in zero-grade *wi-, sometimes
> dual *wi:- < *wih-, IEW 1175, 1127). As a morphological parallel
> to *kóndHu- I regard Greek <kórthus> 'millstone' (Theophrastus) as
> derived from PIE *g^Her- 'short, small, fine-grained'; here the
> adjectival root (Pokorny's *g^Her-(6), IEW 443) is enlarged to
> *g^HerdH- 'to make small, grind' which in turn yields the agential
> *g^HórdHu- 'grinder, millstone', Proto-Greek *kHórtHu-, by
> Grassmann's Law <kórthus>. The same adjectival *g^Her- appears in
> two other archaic IE formations in Greek: *g^Hén-g^Hro-
> 'small-grained material', Greek <kégkhros> 'millet; fish-spawn';
> *g^H´n.-g^Hru-, Grk. <kákhrus> 'winter-bud' (Thphr.), 'parched
> barley' (Aristophanes). The latter's variant <kágkhrus> is
> probably a cross between these forms.
de Vries:
'knoka schw. V. 'schlagen, prügeln',
nisl. hnoka 'unruhig sein', nnorw. knoka,
nschw. dial. knåka,
ndä. knuge 'drücken, klemmen'.
mhd. knochen 'knuffen' und
ae. cnocian, cnucian 'schlagen, stossen'.
vgl. knúi und knjúkr.
Das Verhältnis zu
norw. dial. knok m.,
knoka f. 'knöchel'
vgl. mnd. knoke usw.
weist natürlich nicht auf ein denominat. verb. hin;
es ist wohl urspr. lautmalend
(Hellquist GHÅ 14, 1908, Nr 2, 12)
und gehört deshalb zu
nnorw. aschw. knaka 'krachen',
adä. knage 'knacken',
mnd. knaken 'krachen, knacken'
(s. auch de Vries IF 62, 1956, 136-150).
knollr m. 'bergkuppe' (norw. DN) (< urn. *knuzla-),
nisl. knollur 'knolle',
nnorw. knoll, ndä. knold 'knoten, bergkuppe'.
ae. cnoll 'berggipfel',
nnd. knolle, knulle,
mnl. cnol 'kleiner hügel, bodenerhebung',
mhd. knolle 'erdscholle, klumpen';
aber daneben auch
ae. hnoll 'scheitel',
mnl. nolle, nol,
ahd. hnol, mhd. nol,
wie ahd. hnel, mhd. nel 'spitze, gipfel, Scheitel'
(also wieder Wechsel kn-: hn-;
s. de Vries IF 62, 1956, 136-150). vgl. knylla und knosa.
knosa schw. V. 'kneifen, schlagen, zerbrechen' (spät bezeugt),
nisl. fär. knosa,
aschw. knosa, knusa,
nnorw. knysja;
daneben aschw. knu:sa,
ndä. knu:se 'zermalmen'
(zu nnd. knu:sen 'drücken, quetschen').
ae. cnyssan, nnd. knösen, mnl. cnosen, cneusen, ahd. knussen.
vgl. knaus, knúska, knollr und knúi.
knúi m. 'knöchel', auch PN. (< germ. *knu:wan),
nisl. hnúi,
fär. knúgvi,
nnorw. knue, knuve,
nschw. knoge,
ndä. kno(e).
> lpN. knu:vva 'fingerknöchel' (Qvigstad 173).
vgl. knýja.
Als idg. wzl wäre *gneu anzusetzen,
erw. von *gen 'zusammendrücken',
vgl. knappr 1.
Dazu verschiedene erw. und zwar:
mit labial : vgl: knýfill und knypri
mit guttural : vgl. knjúkr
mit dental : vgl. knútr
mit s : vgl. knosa
Es ist aber zu beachten, dass diese wörter vorwiegend nur germ. belegt sind, und also erst im germ. entstanden sein werden
(s. de Vries IF 62, 1956, 136-150).
knúska schw. V. 'prügeln' (spät belegt),
nisl. fär. knúska,
nnorw. knuska;
vgl. ndä. dial. knuske 'auf etwas kauen'.
schweiz. chnu:ssen, chnu:sten 'prügeln'.
vgl. knosa.
knúta f. 'knochenkopf; knöchel zum spielen' (spät bezeugt),
nisl. hnúta, fär. knúta, nschw. knuta, ndä. knude.
nhd. dial. knu:t 'faust, baumstumpf'.
vgl. auch hnúta und knútr.
knútr 1 m. 'knoten',
nisl. knútur, hnútur,
fär. knútur,
nnorw. schw. knut.
> ne. ON. Hard Knott (Ekwall MASO 3, 1941, 49);
> russ. knut 'knoten an einer peitsche; knotenpeitsche'.
vgl. knúta, knýta und knytja.
Reich entwickelte wortgruppe im westgerm. und zwar:
mit t : mnl. knoet 'knüttel, klumpen', cnote 'knorren', ahd. knoto.
mit tt : ae. cnotta 'knoten', afr. knotta, mnd. knutte 'knorren', nnl. knot 'knäuel', knuttel 'ballen gedrehtes tau',
vgl. schw. dial. knott 'kleines tier'.
mit d : ahd. knodo 'knoten', nnl. knoedel 'mehlklumpen'.
mit dd : mnl. cnodde 'knöpf, knoten'.
Hauptsächlich innergerm. bildungen zur sippe von knúi. Die entsprechenden idg. Wörter lit. gniutù, gniùsti 'drücken', gnùtulas 'klumpen' brauchen also nicht unmittelbar verwandt zu sein (s. zu knjúkr).
2 m. PN., nnorw. Knut, ndä. Knud.
> ae. Cnut (Björkman PN 25).
Weil schon 774 im ahd. der name Chnu:z belegt ist, und der älteste
dänische beleg erst anfang des 10. Jhts vorkommt, überwiegt A.
Lindqvist, Fschr. Pipping 359 die möglichkeit, dass der dänische name
aus Deutschland herstammen könnte. Andrerseits hat Naumann 99 den
namen zu knýja gestellt; er würde also etwa 'der bezwinger' bedeuten.
knýfill m. 'kurzes hörn',
nisl. hnýfill,
nnorw. nyvel (auch knyvla f.);
dazu nnorw. dial. knuv m. 'masse mit runder spitze',
nschw. dial. knuv 'berggipfel'.
mnd. knovel, mhd. knübel 'knöchel'
Daneben mit media geminata:
nnorw. dial. nschw. knubb,
ndä. knub 'klotz, block',
nnorw. dial. knybbe 'klotz',
zu mnd. knobbe 'knorren', und
knobbe, knubbe 'knorren, knospe',
nnl. knobbel 'knoten, beule'.
vgl. kneyfa, knúi und hnýfill.
knýja schw. V. (prät. kníða und knúða) 'klemmen, prügeln, schlagen',
nisl. knýja, fär. knýggja,
vgl. nnorw. knua, nschw. dial. knoa 'mit den fingerknöcheln drücken',
nschw. knoga 'geizig sein'.
ae. cnu:wian 'zerstossen',
ostfr. kno:jen 'drücken',
mnl. cnauwen 'zermahlen, zermalmen',
nnl. knoeien 'pfuschen'.
vgl. knúi und knútr 2.
knykill m. 'kleiner knoten',
nisl. hnykill,
fär. knykil 'klumpen, bergkuppe',
vgl. shetl. knugel 'knorren, knoten'.
ae. cnucel (ne. knuckle),
afr. mnd. knokel,
mnl. cnockel,
nnl. knokkel, knekel, kneukel,
mhd. knüchel 'knöchel'.
vgl. knjúkr und hnykill.
knykr m. 'gestank, übler geruch (nur Barl. s.).
vgl. hnykr und nykr.
knylla schw. V. 'prügeln' (< germ. *knuzlian),
nisl. hnylla,
nnorw. schw. knulla,
ndä. knolde 'coire'.
ae. cnyllan 'schlagen, klopfen',
mhd. knüllen 'stossen, erschlagen'.
vgl. knosa.
knypr, knypri n. 'klumpen' (spät bezeugt),
nisl. hnypri.
schw. knopp,
vgl. ae. cnoppa,
mnd. knoppe,
mnl. cnoppe,
ahd. cnopf 'knopf und
abl. afr. kna:p, (nnl. knaap),
mnd. kno:p,
ahd. knouf.
lit. gniaubti 'umfassen'.
vgl. knúi und hnypri.'
How can a root that behaves like that be considered IE?
> Verner and several contemporaries regarded 'hand' as connected with
> the Gmc. strong verb *henþ- 'to capture' reflected in Goth.
> <frahinþan>, <-hanþ>, <-hunþans> 'id.', Swedish <hinna> 'to obtain,
> reach', Danish dialectal <hinne> 'id.', in which case *hanðu- would
> be the correct Gmc. form and my explanation would fail. More
> recently however Seebold saw "keine sichere Vergleichsmöglichkeit"
> between 'hand' and *henþ-. Such a connection would require an
> oxytone /o/-grade agent, PIE *kontú- 'catcher', to be formed from
> *kent-, then inherited into Gmc. in the sense 'hand'. This is, in
> my opinion, more difficult to justify morphologically and
> semantically than what I proposed above.
Actually I considered connecting them, but outside IE, in the donor language, whichever that is.
Note that those Germanic nouns for which alternations show the effect of Verner, smell funny too:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/62159
which might lead one to believe that PPGmc had no mobile stress in nouns, only in verbs, and those cases which which seem to have had that only show the effect of loaning from language ewhich did have mobile stress in nouns. Note that *glas-(/*glar-) is one of them, and that is suspected of being Venetic (as spoken by Aestians).
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/62525
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/62535
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/64139
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/61079
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/59612
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/63465
In short, I see a semantic development
"carry, support" ->
"carrying pole/beam", and since there are two of those ->
"edge", and, used in warfare ->
"wing of battle formation" (remember the Roman caput porci, ON svínfylking, battle formation of several cunei, the various nations in an alliance fought separately beside each other,
cf. Caesar's description of Ariovitus' battle formation,
cf. Gmc *folk-, Russian polk "regiment") ->
"troop, people".
In that development the first element "carry, support" is found only in Uralic, not in IE so we must look east for the donor.
Torsten