Re: [tied] Giebul/tów, another 'princely grave'

> One final (which is actually the first) point about Snorri. He was
> an Icelander who thought in Icelandic geographical terms. His
> geography was very much a "Viking" one. For centuries before he
> wrote (and certainly for Icelanders and Norwegians, Danes, and
> Swedes) the route eastward was a sea route not a land route. And as
> late as the 11th century the main route westward for Old Ukrainians
> was also a sea route (under the influence of their Norse-origin
> dynasts). The famous "route from the Greeks to the Varangians".
> When the Kyivan Herodotus Nestor (1057-1116) wrote about the visit
> of the Apostle Andrew to Kyiv (itself a fictional development from
> the notion that Andrew evangelized "Scythia") he had him travel
> back to Rome to his brother Peter by that route: up the Dnipro,
> shift to the Lovat', via Novgorod then into the Baltic, then
> westward to the North Sea, then southward via the Atlantic to the
> pillars of Hercules, then into the Mediterranean and then Rome. And
> this is precisely the route Snorri's Odin also took from "Asgard"
> to "Saxland" (via "Gardariki" as Old Rus' was called by the
> Vikings). This route did not exist in the 1rst c. CE as the major
> thoroughfare it later became. And no East Slavic historian has ever
> suggested that Nestor's idea of Andrew's travel reflected "popular
> tradition". Nestor could fantasize as well as as Snorri or Master
> Vincent. In him, as in Snorri, as in Vincent, one must distinguish
> the valuable from the chaff. That has always been the main task of
> professional mediaevalists. And by and large they have done an
> excellent job.

So Snorri lied, because Nestor lied?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostle_Andrew
'Eusebius quotes Origen as saying Andrew preached in Asia Minor and in Scythia, along the Black Sea as far as the Volga and Kiev. Hence he became a patron saint of Ukraine, Romania and Russia. According to tradition, he founded the See of Byzantium (Constantinople)[4] in AD 38, installing Stachys as bishop. This diocese would later develop into the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Andrew is recognized as its patron saint.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebius_of_Caesarea
'Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 263 – c. 339) (often called Eusebius Pamphili, "Eusebius [the friend] of Pamphilus")
...
Of the extensive literary activity of Eusebius, a relatively large portion has been preserved. Although posterity suspected him of Arianism, Eusebius had made himself indispensable by his method of authorship; his comprehensive and careful excerpts from original sources saved his successors the painstaking labor of original research. Hence, much has been preserved, quoted by Eusebius, which otherwise would have been destroyed.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen
'Origen (..., or Origen Adamantius, c. 185–254[1]) was an early Christian scholar and theologian, and one of the most distinguished of the early fathers of the Christian Church.'


So much for the 'excellent job' of those East Slavic historians.


Torsten