From: george knysh
Message: 65005
Date: 2009-09-09
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
--- In cybalist@... s.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
>
> Clicked on the wrong button before the message was complete. Sorry!
>
> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
>
> > From: george knysh <gknysh@...>
> > Subject: Farzoi's chief racket and his northern boys.
> > To: cybalist@... s.com
> > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 3:12 PM
> > First of all this:
> >
> > http://www.princeto n.edu/~pswpc/ pdfs/scheidel/ 050704.pdf
> >
> > Cf. especially the text to footnote 48.
> >
> > Then have a look at Strabo (Book 11, section 2, paragraph
> > 3).
> > It appears that slave trading was one of the Eurasian
> > nomads' chief occupations. And Greek city states were
> > intermediaries. The Scythian fortresses of the Lower Dnipro
> > fulfilled the same basic function.
>
> Which puts a somewhat different slant on Tacitus' famous passage
> in the "Germania" ch. 46: "from whence [the Sarmatians GK] the
> Venedians have derived very many of their customs and a great
> resemblance. For they are continually traversing and infesting with
> robberies all the forests and mountains lying between the
> Peucinians and Fennians."
>
> Proto-Slavs as slave raiders for Farzoi and his successors.. .And
> they were occasionally accompanied by their employers. The fearsome
> mounted "ispolins" (Slavic designation for the Spali as the rulers
> of Scythia were called) are a part of East Slavic folklore (ditto
> re the "Serpent" (=Dragon!) threatening from the steppes ,and the
> "Serpent Walls" built south of Kyiv for protection many times), and
> Farzoi coins have been found deep in the forest area of the north.
>
> Interesting twist on these "glorious" empires.
That's why continuous warfare was necessary for the upper layers also of Germanic societies.
The Veneti were not Proto-Slavs,
****GK: Tacitus' Venedi are excellent candidates. The name persisted in Germanic tradition (cf. Jordanes and mediaeval German).****
and there's nothing in the text that implies that they trade in Slaves.
****GK: In context it's pretty certain. The practice antedated them and persisted into the middle ages (cf. the accounts of Arabic geographers about the raiding Scandinavian Rus'). Svyatoslav asserted as much in his pre-Bulgarian campaign speech of 969 as recorded in
"The tale of bygone years" (read it)****
At Tacitus' time they would have been on their last legs, those former traders on the Amber Road being squeezed out from east and west, reduced to living by brigandage.
****GK: I don't agree with your Venetic theories. Tacitus' text considers the Venedi an important population (this is confirmed in Jordanes when he talks about Hermanaric)*****