Re: Town, Zaun, and Celtic Dun-

From: Brian M. Scott
Message: 64926
Date: 2009-08-22

At 5:58:18 PM on Saturday, August 22, 2009, tgpedersen wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> <BMScott@...> wrote:

>> At 2:00:17 PM on Saturday, August 22, 2009, tgpedersen wrote:

[...]

>>> in the area of Insular Celtic languages included. This
>>> means (Stephen Oppenheimer pointed this out) that either

>> > 1) the Insular Celtic languages are not Celtic, or

>> Which is obviously false: the definition of 'Celtic
>> language' is pretty unambiguous.

> Don't be disingenuous.

I'm not. You're trying to equivocate on 'Celtic'.

>>> 2) Hallstatt and La Tène cultures are not Celtic cultures.

> I was pointing out that whatever term you use, you can't
> use it both of the relict languages on the British Isles
> and in Brittany and of the Hallstatt culture, which was
> Oppenheimer's point.

Of course you can, unless you're under the delusion that
'Celtic' in linguistics and 'Celtic' in ethnology are
synonyms.

>> Also from the La Tène article:

>> Some of the societies that are archaeologically identified
>> with La Tène material culture were identified by Greek and
>> Roman authors from the 5th century onwards as keltoi
>> ("Celts") and galli ("Gauls").

> Which is obviously irrelevant. The question is: who got
> the idea of identifying the relict Western languages with
> the Celtic culture of Gaul?

>> Herodotus placed keltoi at the source of the Danube, in the
>> heartland of La Tène material culture.

> Oppenheimer has problems with that one too.

I can't say that Oppenheimer's opinions matter much to me;
he's obviously a linguistic ignoramus.

>> Whether this means that the whole of La
>> Tène culture can be attributed to a unified Celtic people
>> is difficult to assess; archaeologists have repeatedly
>> concluded that language, material culture, and political
>> affiliation do not necessarily run parallel.

> A platitude by which the author tries to dispel doubts
> about the present assignations.

Zero marks for failing to understand (or at any rate to
accept) a basic fact.

Brian