--- In cybalist@... s.com, "frabrig" <frabrig@... > wrote:
> --- In cybalist@... s.com, "shivkhokra" <shivkhokra@ > wrote:
>
>> Regarding Manu Smriti you are again reading it with an assumption
>> that Yavans mentioned there are Greeks. As has been shown from the
>> Mbh thread on this list Yavanas were just not Greeks. This term was
>> used for Indic people from the north-east in Mbh.
> You haven't "shown" anything. You have merely kept reiterating a single moot point about "Bhagadatta, king of the Yavanas",<.. >
>
No. MahaBharata is clear that the Yavana king Bhagadatta was from North Eastern India. Please read about it here:
[http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/64890]
>
> In my latest post I had posed Shivraj the following question:
>
> > > What was the fate of the descendants of the Yavana, Saka,
> > > Pahlava, Kushana, Huna etc. invaders of India, if they never
> > > intermarried with Hindu caste populations as per your hypothesis?
> > > Were they extinguished, exterminated, exiled by the "pure Hindu
> > > race", or did all of them become sterile so that they left no
> > > progeny, or what else?
>
> Shivraj replied:
>
> > Each group most likely did some of the following:
> >
> > a) If these groups were able to establish themselves in a
> > geography, soon enough they got their women to join them, if they
> > were not already travelling with them.
>
> Fine enough. But did *all* of them marry with women of their own ethnic stock?
>
Probably not. Children born from raped local women were not married amongst the caste groups.
> > b) Local women were captured.
>
> This is also fine for me. Thus, they begot children from these "local women", which is precisely what I have been arguing from the start of this painful discussion.
>
Nobody is denying this. Let us look at some evidence starting from 20th century and going backwards in time:
20th century:
a) Rajiv Gandhi, son of a Hindu Lady, Mrs Indira Gandhi (herself a daughter of the first PM of India, Jawahar Lal Nehru) and a non-Hindu Feroze Gandhi (either a Parsi or a muslim) was not considered a Hindu. As Prime Minister of India, Mr. Gandhi tried visiting Pashupati Nath temple in Nepal but he was disallowed entry into the temple because he was not a Hindu. This led to a diplomatic row between India and Nepal.
***R Firuz Khan, according to my Indian friends, was a Muslim who "converted" to Hinduism, but they tell me that fringe Hindus see all the Gandhis (Indira's children) as Muslims.
I have met many Hindus who are married to non-Hindus or who have a parent who is Muslim or Christian. They tell me that it is not unusual in Mumbai, Pune and other major cities. Among overseas Indians, intermarriage is very common and most of the Indians I've met from the West Indies are mixed.
17th - current century:
a) Progeny of Britishers who came to India are called Anglo-Indians and are not considered Hindus. Hindus as a rule do not inter-marry with this group. Anglo-Indians intermarry either amongst themselves or other christians.
b) Progeny of Portugese in Goa are also christians and Hindus do not intermarry with this group either. Goan Christians marry amongst themselves or the larger Christian diaspora of India.
10th - current century:
a) Progeny of Arabs, Turks, Afghans and Mughals are all Muslims and Hindus do not inter-marry with this group either.
If geneticists were to look for evidence of inter-mixing of Genes in anglo-Indians, Muslims or Christians it is very likely they will see the evidence.
On the other hand lack of evidence of such intermixing in the Hindu genes just re-affirms what is already known that there were no marriage ties between the Hindus and the foreigners. Now you have digged for many days for large scale mixing of Hindu and foreign populations and you have not been able to unearth much. Don't you think there is a reason for it?
> I have also added that some of these Yavanas, Sakas, Pahlavas, Hunas gradually become Hindu
No. This is purely your conjecture. You have not provided any evidence. You have to show what was the religion of these groups before their conversion to Hinduism, who was converted by whom and how. There is a very specific reason why I am asking you this question. Reason is in Hinduism prior to the medieval times there was no "recipe" to make you a Hindu. You were either born a Hindu or not. You could not "convert" to Hinduism. Regarding your mention about some Huns worshipping Shiva, there are millions of Hindu children who go to missionary schools and they pray to Jesus and Mother Mary. Does that make all these children Christians?
Regards,
Shivraj