Re: Aryan invasion theory and race

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Francesco Brighenti" <frabrig@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "shivkhokra" <shivkhokra@> wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wordingham"
> > <richard.wordingham@> wrote:
> >
> > > You seem to be saying that the match between Hebrew
> > >_yawan_ 'Greek' and Sanskrit _yavana_ is a coincidence.
> > > Do I understand you?
> >
> > Yes. We can conclude that it is a coincidence.
>
> Is it, really?

Yes. When we analyze evidence from a text then *all* of the evidence from that text has to be consistently looked. We cannot pick and choose data from a given text partially to suit our theories.

If you insist that yavan *only* stood for greeks (which we know is not true) then please explain how in Mahabharata Bhagdatta, ruler of Pragjyotishpur, who has chinas (chineses mercenaries) of yellow complexion with braided hair in his army, a yavan? Can you corroborate this king as a greek from the Greek sources?

We would also like to know:
a) Did Greeks tell Indians that they were yavans?
b) Did Greeks call each other yavans?
c) Did Indians know that Greeks came from Ionia and hence should be called yavans (Ionians)?
d) Why did Indians continue to use the word yavans for Mughals and Brits later?

>
> > Yavan in Sanskrit is related to "yovan" which means "young" (the
> > reason perhaps why the mercenaries were called yavan was because
> > these groups comprised of younger people.
>
> Oh well... Apart from the fact that the correct transliteration of this Rgvedic term for 'young, youthful, youth' is yuvan and not "yovan", the above fanciful etymology is taken directly, irrespective of whether Shivraj is aware of this fact or not, from some outdated nineteenth-century publications by the Theosophical Society (yes, Madame Blavatsky!):
>

Nope. Not aware of M Blavatsky. Thanks for pointing it out. The adjective for youth in hindi is yovan or yauvan (with double o matra).

> http://tinyurl.com/p5dbgt (p. 37)
> "The word 'Yavana' was a generic term employed ages before the 'Greeks of Alexander' projected 'their influence' upon Jambudvipa [the Sanskrit name of the continent, as envisioned in the cosmologies of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, where the Aryas live -- Francesco] -- to designate people of a younger race, the word meaning yuvan 'young', or younger."
>

yovan as an adjective for an army of young people is reasonable.

> It is a well-known fact that Sanskrit yuvan has many cognates within Indo-European, such as Latin iuvenis 'young man', Lithuanian jaunas 'young', etc. etc. -- see at
>
> http://tinyurl.com/pemv8v
>
> The exact Indo-European proto-form of this word may be disputed (problems with the reconstruction of laryngeals, etc.), but the root cannot certainly change the vowel of its first syllable to -a- so as to give yavana!
>

au and a are pretty close (au (double o matra) in yovan). I see no issue here in people using yovan and yavan as they are phonetically very similar.

>
> > From it is the latin "juvenis" and the anglo saxon, iong, iung,
> > geong.
>
> No, these words cannot be derived from Sanskrit yuvan.
>

No. Please read this:
http://tinyurl.com/yuvan-juvenis

> > Yavioshta is used for the "ever young" Agni in Vedic Hymns.
> > Yavistha is the superlative of Yovan (young) and is used for Agni
> > and means latest born or kindled fire
> > From this the Greeks got their Hephaistos, their fire god and god
> > of volcanoes.
>
> So Greek Hephaistos, admittedly a theonym of obscure etymology, would derive from Sanskrit yavi.s.tha 'youngest, very young' (esp. applied to Agni when just produced from wood)? Where did you draw this notion?
>

Rather easy actually:
a) Agni's father was dyaus and Zeus fathered Hephaestus.
a) Hephaestus is the youngest of the greek gods.
b) Agni's abode was water and Hephaestus lived in the ocean for many years says the Illiad.

Still perplexed? Also we have digressed from the main thesis that invaders were mingled into Indian society. Can you please respond to this so that we can conclude the debate:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/64665

Regards,
-Shivraj