RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "bmscotttg" <BMScott@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "caotope" <johnvertical@> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> Khanty is spoken a few thousands of kilometers away from the
> >> Germanic hartlands. I don't buy the idea that pre-IE/Uralic
> >> northern Europe/Siberia spoke only one language.
>
> > Because?
>
> Because languages change over time, and vast distances imply
> considerable temporal differentiation.

Kuhn's ar-/ur- language is characterized by that alternation, the apa-/upe- "stream" alternation he tries to distribute geographically (apa- west, upe- east); Schrijver's definition of his geminate and bird name languages implies a wide range of variation in auslaut and root vowel. Individual languages may hide behind this. THey are not to be taken more literally as a single language than Krahe's Old European.

> [...]
>
> > But the languages around them swarm with lookalikes which must be
> > ultimately related, [...]
>
> An article of faith, apparently.

??
Pokorny
pei(&)-, pi(:)- ,fett sein, strotzen';
pei-tu-, poi-tu-, pi(:)-tu- ,Fett, Saft, Trank',
pi-k- ,Pech', pi:-mo- ,fett',
pi:-w-er-/-en- ,Fett, fett',
poi-wa: (,fette) Wiese';
poi-men- ,Muttermilch',
pi-pi-us-i: ,Milch habend'.

UEW
pije- 2 'melken' FU
? [Finn. piimä 'dicke Sauermilch';
est.piim (Gen.piima) 'Milch'] |

? ung. fej- 'melken'.

< ? uriran.: vgl. aw. paiiō- 'Milch', paёman- 'Muttermilch'.

Die Etymologie ist nur dann zu akzeptieren, wenn das Element mă in finn. piimä ein deverb. Nominalsuffix darstellt, und pii- zudem ein Verb mit der Bedeutung 'melken' war.
Ung. Wort s. noch unter *päð'3- 'melken' FU.


päð'з- 'melken' FU
? Mord. E M peďa- 'seihen; melken (E)' |
? ung. fej- 'melken'.
< ? uriran.: vgl. aw. paiiō- 'Milch'.

Die Etymologie ist nur dann akzeptabel, wenn das mord. ď auf FU *ð' und nicht auf *t zurückgeht. Das Wort (JE) M piťe- 'szúr [o: szűr]; seihen' scheint eher auf ein ursprüngliches *t hinzuweisen.
Das ung. Wort s. noch unter *pije- 'melken' FU.

pektä- 'buttern, Butter machen' FW
...

What more do you want?

> >> *kansa "people": Outside of Fennoscandia, the only posited
> >> cognates are Udmurt kuz, Komi goz, which do not correspond
> >> even to _one another_ (viz. the initial stop voicing; otherwise
> >> possible from *kansa). Also, they mean "pair". Germanic > Samic
> >> contacts are kno'n to exist so that doesn't pose a problem.
>
> > Please explain how Germanic-Saami contacts solve the problem.
>
> By making <kansa> a loan from (pre-Grimm) Gmc., I presume.

Oh, that one. Yes, you're right, John apparently gave up on Udmurt and Komi. That family is larger, but that would take a separate posting.


Torsten