Fw: Re: [tied] Re: Mid-first century BCE Yazigian prerequisites

From: tgpedersen
Message: 64626
Date: 2009-08-07

Ah, where were we...

Pliny, Naturalis Historia, Book IV. XIII.:
http://tinyurl.com/nmmg7j
'
96 Incipit deinde clarior aperiri fama ab gente Inguaeonum, quae est prima in Germania. Mons Saevo ibi, inmensus nec Ripaeis iugis minor, inmanem ad Cimbrorum usque promunturium efficit sinum, qui Codanus vocatur, refertus insulis, quarum clarissima est Scatinavia, inconpertae magnitudinis, portionem tantum eius, quod notum sit, Hillevionum gente quingentis incolente pagis: quare alterum orbem terrarum eam appellant. nec minor est opinione Aeningia.

97 quidam haec habitari ad Vistlam usque fluvium a Sarmatis, Venedis, Sciris, Hirris tradunt, sinum Cylipenum vocari et in ostio eius insulam Latrim, mox alterum sinum Lagnum, conterminum Cimbris. promunturium Cimbrorum excurrens in maria longe paeninsulam efficit, quae Tastris appellatur. XXIII inde insulae Romanis armis cognitae. earum nobilissimae Burcana, Fabaria nostris dicta a frugis multitudine sponte provenientis, item Glaesaria a sucino militiae appellata, barbaris Austeravia, praeterque Actania.'




"From this point more definite information begins
to open up, beginning with the race of the Inguaeones,
the first that we come to in Germany. Here there
is an enormous mountain, the Saevo, as big as those
of the Ripaean range, which forms an enormous
bay reaching to the Cimbrian promontory; it is
named the Codanian Gulf, and is studded with islands.
The most famous of these is Scandinavia; its size
has not been ascertained, and so far as is known,
only part of it is inhabited, its natives being the
Hilleviones, who dwell in 500 villages, and call their
island a second world. Aeningia is thought to be
equally big. Some authorities report that these
regions as far as the river Vistula are inhabited by
the Sarmati, Venedi, Sciri and Hirri, and that there
is a gulf named Cyhpenus, with the island of Latris
at its mouth, and then another gulf, that of Lagnus,
at which is the frontier of the Cimbri. The Cimbrian
promontory projects a long way into the sea, forming
a peninsula called Tastris. Then there are twenty-
three islands known to the armed forces of Rome ;
the most noteworthy of these are Burcana, called
by our people Bean Island from the quantity of wild
beans growing there, and the island which by the
soldiery is called Glass Island from its amber, but
by the barbarians Austeravia, and also Actania."


Shchukin handles that information thus:
'Pliny begins his account from the Cimbrian peninsula (promuntorium), ie. Denmark [TP no, Jutland], after which he follows the Gulf of Codanus, with its many islands. The largest is Skatinavia. The "other", the "next" the "opposite land" (alterem orbem terrarum) of similar size, is called Aeningia and had been settled as far as the river Vistula by Sarmatians, Venedi, Sciri and Hirri. Then Pliny returns in his account to the peninsula of Cimbri. Thus we have before us, as D.A. Machinsky rightly supposes a description of the route around the Baltic. The notion about the Baltic as a huge bay (Codanus Sinus) curving like an eyebrow does not belong to Pliny alone, but also to his predecessor and contemporary Pomponius Mela who had written his "Chronology" around 44 AD, and this notion could have arisen if the bank opposite the Cimbrian peninsula to the east beyond the sea with its many islands had been known to exist. The land opposite was the Lithuanian-Latvian shore. Evidently, there had been intentional or chance crossings of the Baltic from west to east. And so D.A. Machinsky thinks that Pliny's Aeningia was most probably the Courzeme peninsula, where some Veneti lived right up to the Middle Ages and where in the 19th century a part of the inhabitants was called "Ventini". Toponyms such as the river Venta and the town of Ventspils are still preserved.
There is an opinion, to be sure, that the land opposite "Scatinavia" was Polish Pomerania. Pliny's text allows for such an interpretation, but the first supposition seems more likely. Pliny starts the settlement of Aeningia with the Sarmatians. But we know that the most northerly Sarmatian memorials of this time are in the Middle Dnieper region south of Kiev. Pliny must also have known about this, even if only approximately, from his conversations with Mithridates of the Bosporus and with Platinus Silvanus. Besides he was himself a prefect of the squadron at Misin, a sub-unit of which was still stationed in Chersonesus from where he would have received intelligence information on the barbarian lands. Apparently, Aeningia was not just confined to the Courzeme peninsula. This was essentially all of Eastern Europe between the Baltic, the Vistula and the Dnieper region. The Venedi, Sciri and Hirri lived somewhere here in Aeningia (illus. 40)'


Apparently archaeology is in conflict with the written sources here.
'The land opposite [to the Cimbrian peninsula / Jutland] was the Lithuanian-Latvian shore.' Highly unlikely interpretation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Baltic_Sea_map.png
And the expediency of moving Pliny's Aeningia there does not resolve the conflict between Pliny and archaeology wrt. the question of whether the Sarmatians were on the Baltic or not.


Torsten