From: tgpedersen
Message: 64454
Date: 2009-07-28
>As you can imagine, pushing that kind of Schwebeablaut off to a foreign language is very helpful.
>
>
> ________________________________
> De: tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>
> Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Enviadas: Segunda-feira, 27 de Julho de 2009 20:30:13
> Assunto: [tied] Re: Afro-Asiatic substrate (re "folk" "polk" "pulkas")
>
>
> --- In cybalist@... s.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@... s.com, george knysh <gknysh@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 7/27/09, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Vennemann gave a convincing Semitic etymology for 'folk'
> > > > http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/48772
> > > > http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/48897
> > > >
> > > > GK: There are attested presences of this term in three language
> > > > groups: Germanic, Slavic, and Baltic (nothing in Iranic?).
> > >
> > > Not AFAIK.
> > >
> > > > Now if it came from Semitic to all three, what is the time line
> > > > of the borrowing?
> > >
> > > Time of the Sea Peoples in Egypt. Bronze Age.
> > >
> > > ****GK: I don't suppose there is any connection between the Gr
> > > "pelekus" and the Egyptian designation of the Philistines
> > > ("Peleset")( with the latter being some sort of satemized variant:
> > > is the Hebrew link "Plishtim" totally secure or just a folk
> > > version?). The time frame would be adequate enough, and the
> > > archaeological evidence plausible (since migrating people of the
> > > Zrubna right bank steppe area culture of Ukraine participated in
> > > the "peoples of the sea" invasion along with more Western
> > > elements). But if so why would it be the "k" form which appeared
> > > in Balto-Slavic (unless there was a later secondary borrowing).
> > > Probably an incorrect hookup but very tempting esp. in view of
> > > later Scythian connections with Ashkelon and their "viper woman"
> > > + Targitaus myths which all have clear links to the middle
> > > east.*****
> > >
> > > > On the other hand if the Slavic and Baltic terms are borrowings
> > > > from Germanic, this would imply a time before the Grimm shift.
> > >
> > > Actually, most traditional treatments of traditional loans from
> > > Germanic to Baltic Finnic presupposes a reversing of Grimm in the
> > > process, probably because Grimm was once placed very early. Most
> > > linguists now place the Grimm shift around the begin of CE, so do
> > > I, seeing it as caused by contact with an Iranian language
> > > (Ossetic has something similar). But since I'm beginning an
> > > Umwertung aller Werte anyway, I'll get this straight too: it was
> > > loaned from Semitic into the ar-/ur- language.
> > >
> > > *****GK: As "plg" (as Piotr implies?) with the "g" later changing
> > > to a "k"?****
> >
> > Vennemann has a Semitic plk "district; spindle",
> > http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/60453
> > that would match better.
>
> That was too hasty.
> *pVlg- would become Germanic *fVlk-
> *pVlk- would be a nice source for Russian polk, Baltic pulkas.
>
>
> How about folk x flock? *fulkam and *flukka- < *p(w)Lgno- x *plugno-
>
> JS Lopes
>