Re: That old Ariovistus scenario.

From: gknysh
Message: 64318
Date: 2009-07-01

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, gknysh@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > GK: Again: Saxland northern or southern did not include the
> > > steppes of the Tysza basin in Snorri's time. There are sources on
> > > Icelandic medieval geography you could consult.
> > > >
> > Snorri was talking about events preceding his own by more than a
> > millenium. 'Saxland' would have had the territory the predecessors
> > of the inhabitants of Saxland in Snorri's time possessed, whichever
> > way the predecessors were defined.
> >
> >
> > GK: I'm afraid not. You are totally confused (Snorrism will do
> > that to you).
>
> I assume you're you feel you are being lenient and that 'confused' is one of the lower grades of disagreeing-with-George-ness which ends in 'heretic who must be taken care of'?

****GK: I said you are totally confused. I meant that you are totally confused. Is that so hard to understand? *****
>
> > Anatolia was "Tyrkland" to him because that's what it was in the
> > 12th/13th c. Ditto "Gardariki" (in Scandinavian terms). Again, I
> > urge you to consult works on medieval Icelandic geography. At least
> > browse through Pritsak's "Origin of Rus": there are many refernces
> > there for further study.
> >
> That still doesn't change the fact that if he is drawing on native traditions those would refer to countries with the extent they had at the time which the events took place.

****GK: Explain why Hungary is "Saxland" according to "native tradition". Are you suggesting that Icelandic geography in Snorri's time did not reflect that?****
>
> > The basic difference of our views on Snorri as a historian here is
> > that I think he is drawing on native trasditions, and you think he
> > doesn't have a clue and made it all up.
> >
> > GK: Snorri was certainly working on the basis (partly) of
> > relatively recent Viking traditions (Gardariki, Tanakvisl, Vanaland
> > et sim.) But his euhemerizing manipulations thereof are his own
> > (unless some recent predecessor had already done this) We've been
> > here before. Snorri's inventions do not fit the facts of the time
> > he is allegedly describing.
>
> Yes, that is what you have been claiming all the time. That doesn't make it true.

****GK: Not to a Snorrist, since Snorri is his Bible. How can anything interfere with that? You are a true believer, and absolutely nothing will ever sway you away from your ideological committment. You've even reached the point of massive geographical redefinitions, and seem oblivious to the wonderful ridiculousness of your claim. And its blatant self-contradictions.*****

So far we can point to possible archeological analogs for the trip from Tanais to Zarubinia,

****GK: I must have missed that.****

and from Przeworsk to Alsace. Now I just need to connect the dots between Z. and P.

****GK: Since you've nothing in Zarubinia which supports the Snorri scenario your dot connecting is another instance of your irremediable fantasy.****
>
>
> > Wise investigators have seen this for a very long time. It seems
> > you never will.
>
> It seems they weren't so wise after all.

****GK: Snorri is great and Torsten is his prophet.****
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