From: tgpedersen
Message: 64289
Date: 2009-06-28
>That Haplotype Ia (Tanais, Croatia, Scandinavia) and Ic (Tanais,
>
> --- On Sat, 6/27/09, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> >
>
> > > How would you account for the movement of Croats from Tanais to
> > > Southern Slavland?
> >
> > GK: In the first place one cannot even prove that there was any
> > such movement. The Bosporan inscription refers to an individual
> > with a hellenized Iranic name. We have no other evidence of
> > "Croats" in that area at that time (3rd c. AD).
>I never said it did. But it does presuppose an intermingling of Slav
> > > GK: My view is that defensive set-ups ("croatias")
> >
>
> > GK: I don't have my notes on hand, but remember that that there
> > is a Slovak verb where "croat" (something like "khorovaty se" if
> > memory serves) means "to defend" one's self
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/59285
>
>
>
> Gol/a,b:
>
> The Origin of the Slavs, pp. 323-328
>
> 'In the above discussion of the Iranian loanwords in Slavic I have
> omitted proper names, because their etymology usually entails more
> difficulties and uncertainties than that of common nouns. There is
> however, an ethnicon that for serious phonemic and morphologicical
> reasons seems to be of Iranian origin: the ethnicon *XUrvate/i,
> i.e., S-C Hrváti, Hrvate in older sources (nom. plur.), Hrvâtâ
> (gen. plur.), and Hrvatin (nom. sing. in older sources).
> Since the Iranian etymology of this ethnonym is only a hypothesis,
> on equal footing with other hypotheses about its Slavic and
> Germanic origin, I feel obliged to devote a separate excursus to
> this problem.
>
> ****GK: Golomb's interesting hypothesis has nothing to do with your
> notion that Charudes=Croats=Slavs
> (he holds Bastarnian to be Germanic BTW).No,
> I agree with him in positing the "Croat" phenomenon as originatingProof?
> north of the Carpathians, but associate it with Avar state-
> building.****
>The names look vaguely like those Slovenian words
> > > were organized by the Avars along their northern borders (in
> > > the Carpathians and beyond) against the looming Turkic threat.
>
> >
>
> > GK: Sometime in the 570's.
>
> >
>
> > > The leading elements were imported from the east and settled
> > > among Slavs. Their ethnicity is open to debate: you can try
> > > etymologizing the names of the rulers' ancestors from the
> > > account in Constantine Porphyrogenitus.
> >
> > GK: (from memory) There were five names (3 "brothers" and two
> > "sisters) None seemed particularly Slavic.
>
>
> We've been there. I didn't make much headway with them.
>
> ****GK: Correction. FIVE brothers (Kluk, Lobel, Mukhlo, Kosjenc,
> Horvat) The sisters were Tuga and Buga. I have a feeling one might
> find Turkic meanings in some of these.****