--- In cybalist@... s.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@... > wrote:
>
> At 8:54:06 AM on Friday, June 26, 2009, Joao S. Lopes wrote:
>
> > What is the etymology of toponym TIROL/TYROL ? Is it
> > Celtic, Germanic, or what?
>
> Unknown. The most frequent suggestion seems to be that it's
> pre-Roman. I did find this:
>
> Etymologie
>
> Schwierig. Vielleicht rät. *Tir-ále. Ein typisches
> Charakteristikum des Rätischen ist die Endung -ale. Bei
> dieser handelt es sich um einen sogenannten Pertinentiv,
> d. h. einen Lokativ zum Genitiv. Dieser Kasus hat also
> die Funktion, ein Objekt oder ein Individuum örtlich und
> personell zuzuordnen. *Tirále konnte am ehesten 'im
> Bereich einer Person namens *Tir-' bedeutet haben. Bei
> Tirol handelt es sich demnach um einen ehemaligen
> rätischen Gebietsnamen, genauso wie übrigens beim Namen
> Schenna, der am ehesten aus rät. *Skenja oder *Skenje
> stammt, was soviel wie 'zu einer Person namens *Skeni
> gehörig' bedeutet haben könnte.
>
> <http://www.tiroul. info/index. php/Tirol_(Ort_/_Tirol) >
"Diese Seite enthaelt momentan noch keinen Text."
I recognize the lion by his paw, however. This explanation belongs to Helmut Rix's theory of Rhaetic and Etruscan as closely related languages, and Rix named the formation in -si/le the pertinentive, which is a good idea since it is not, strictly speaking, datival in function. However, since the Etr. case in -i is not, strictly speaking, locatival in function but instrumental/ comitative/ proximative/ allative, the pertinentive should be explained rather as the instrumental of the genitive. In votive usage it can be understood as 'to the memory of X', in legal usage as 'to the property of X'.
I find it difficult to believe that a pertinentive could have been substantivized into a toponym, when the usual way of indicating ownership is with the suffix -na. The name <Tirol> remains unexplained, in my opinion. Also, I am not convinced that what Rix calls "Rhaetic" is not really "Rhaeto-Etruscan" , that is, a colonial variety of archaic Etruscan spoken in Padania but not native there. The true "Rhaetic" was more likely an IE language of the Illyrian type, I think.
DGK
***supposing Tyrol was from IE, what could we come up with? Would any "through" words work? Keeping in mind it is noted for mountain passes.
And it would be nice if we could do the same trick with Etruscan but 2-300 words is not enough