From: tolgs001
Message: 63879
Date: 2009-04-23
> Janne Saarikivicf. Hungarian völgy "valley, dale, glen"? (e.g. Duna-völgy "the
> Substrata Uralica
> Studies on Finno-Ugrian substrates in Northern Russian Dialects
> 'Even some new similar etymologies can be presented; all of them,
> except number 3, are more thoroughly discussed in my unpublished
> licenciate thesis (Saarikivi 2003). In many cases the words show
> minor phonological and semantical differencies in comparison with
> their Finnic loan originals. This, together with their unexpected
> distribution 400 to 500 km east of the present Finnic language area,
> suggests that we are dealing with borrowings from extinct Finnic
> substratum languages:
> 1. vólgas (Archangel dialect group, Pinega and Upper Tojma
> districts) 'low and narrow meadow by a river; bend or island of a
> river on which hay grows' (SRNG 5: 37) < Finnic *alho(-s) 'dale'.
> Substitution Finnic *a > Russian o is commonplace in old borowings
> (cf. Kalima 1919: 46-47). The initial v- is a prothetic glide
> characteristic of certain northern Russian dialects (for example
> vól´ha < ól´ha 'willow', cf. Poz^arickaja 1997: 142-143). Final -s,
> with all probability, originated in the substratum language and canGeorge
> be explained as a secondary formation. These kinds of variants of
> nouns exist in all of the Finnic languages and are especially
> commonplace in toponyms (cf. hanka ~ hangas, rampa ~ rammas, Eräjärvi
> ~ Eräsjärvi, Hirvajärvi ~ Hirvasjärvi, etc.; see Tunkelo 1953:
> 98-99). The -s may also be explained by assuming a borrowing from an
> oblique case (cf. Finnish alhossa 'in the dale').'
>
> Or with a substrate to FU and IE.
>
>
>Torsten