OK, but why are we classifying Uralic languages now? How does that
relate to the matter of our distinguishing between dialects and
languages?
=======
Opinions differ as to whether Erzia and Moksha are different languages or
dialects of the same language.
A.
=======
Those are all interesting pieces of information, but how
are they relevant? The questions are not universal enough, fine, they
can help us with the interal classification of Uralic languages, but
what about the other language families, languages and dialects?
=======
I showed you how to apply those criteria to Uralic.
I let you try with other families.
A.
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Well, unlike down there in the Balkans where the former Yugoslavian
enterprise ended up in a complete disaster, we really showed a strong
desire to go on with communication. We "divorced" peacefully, because
the federation was untenable - Slovaks wanted be responsible for
themselves and we let them go, no matter how much we loved the High
Tatras. ;-) You won't find other two countries in Europe that have
better relationship than Czechs and Slovaks. And better communication.
;-)
========
Then, so much the better !
I'm not sure Flemish and Wallon people are on the same track.
A.
========
Please, make a clear, consistent, coherent definition that will define
what dialect is as opposed to language.
You don't seem to understand what I mean: a language-independent
definition of dialect/language.
========
The definition I proposed is language-independent.
You don't like it. You find it circular. Maybe.
I'm not far from thinking you ask me to define a marsupial with a definition
that could also apply to a fish, not mentioning the fact a marsupial is a
mammal, because it's circular.
I would rate it as too qualitative.
A.
========
> ========
> Why is it Czech then ?
>
> It could be a Polish dialect.
>
> A.
> =======
Because vowel length and stress are not enough here.
=======
Why ?
What is it that "Czech" dialects share and "Polish" dialects share that the
other branch does not ?
A.
=======
>
>> plus the absence
>> or presence of long vowels
>
> Bohemian Czech, southern Moravian Czech - long vowels present
> northern Moravian Czech - long vowels absent
>
> ======
> Same as above.
> Why is it not a Polish dialect ?
>
> A.
> =======
By the way, Eastern Slovak also lacks long vowels, and it also
displays penultimate stress. ;-)
======
ok
Thank you for the dialectology course !
but then, why is Eastern Slovak so different ?
A.
=======
>> plus different consonantal systems, all this must
>> make intercomprehension fairly uneasy.
Dialects which are geographically close tend to be easier to
understand. The further you are, the more difficult the communication
gets.
========
This is not always true.
FuZhou and ChaoZhou are close.
And both are awful in a different way.
And this is more or less true of all Min dialects.
The current "classification" is geographical North, East, South, West.
I don't think it's really relevant from a linguistic PoV.
A.
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> I understand Polish quite well. There's an interesting dialect near my
> hometown which renders standard Czech /st/ and /st^/ as /s^c^/.
> Together with the typical penultimate stress, it sounds much like
> Polish to the Czech ear. The problem is that there have been
> transitional dialects between Czech and Polish, Czech and Slovak and
> Slovak and Polish.
>
> Piotr, what's your opinion concerning these issues?
>
> =======
> Maybe they are not far from being dialects of the same language then, even
> though this language does not have a name.
>
> A.
> =======
An anecdote:
A friend of mine once attended a linguistic conference. He met with
his collegue from Slovakia and another one from Poland. They were all
sitting in a café, he was speaking to them in Czech, they were using
their own languages, when suddenly a collegue of theirs (who was from
the USA, I think, and was quite well acquainted with Russian and other
Slavic languages) came to them, listened for a while and cried out:
"What kind of language is that, for Christ's sake???" My friend
replied: "Why, that's West Slavic!" :-D
Wishes,
Petr
========
Do you have some web audio references that I could try to compare by myself
?
A.