Re: Gascon

Well, besides the argument part, I found this fascinating. Do you know if there are any adult schools where any variety of Occitan is taught? I know the calendretas are for kids. I am in California, US, and someday I would like to hear Occitan.
Hearing songs isnt' the same as conversation or speech. Thanks, Greg

From: OctaviÃ Alexandre
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:34 PM
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [tied] Gascon

--- In cybalist@... s.com, "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud@ ...> wrote:
>
>
>> Funny
>> but
>> one Portuguese teacher of phonology I once had
>> taught that
>> Catalan was actually a Spanishified dialect of Southern
>> French !
>> It aint an easy field...
>>
>> Arnaud
> >
> > More like Occitan is Frenchified Catalan
> >
> =======
>
> I'm not sure "Occitan" is anything but a kind of political myth recently
> invented to subsume the diverse dialects : provenï¿½al, franco-provenï¿½ al,
> gascon, etc
> Provenï¿½al and gascon speakers are so adamant their own variety is like
> nothing else that it has always foiled all attempts at a common orthography
> for "Occitan".
> What are the ten major differences between Catalan and French in the first
> place ?
>
Although Arnaud is a French imperialist and I won't talk to him (BTW, France holds the northern part of Catalonia since the 17th century and for French imperialism Barcelona is the southern vertex of the hexagon) due to his lack of respect towards me, I'd recommend to the interested readers Pï¿½ire (Pierre) Bec's book La langue occitane. He devises an Occitano-Romance language group comprising Languedocian, Provenï¿½al, Gascon and Catalan among other varieties. Franco-Provenï¿½ al DOESN'T form part of this group.

In this way, "Occitan" is a label which commonly includes all varieties except Catalan. Like Bec, I think Gascon and Catalan should be both considered languages on its own within Occitano-Romance but apart from Occitan proper. But in a more restricted sense, "Occitan" refers to Languedocian, the central variety and the one with more demographical and geographical extension. The Languedocian stardard was raised by Lois Alibï¿½rt in his Gramatica occitana segons los parlars occitans, published by the Centre d'Estudis Occitans inspired after the work of the Catalan filologist Pompeu Fabra (Institut d'Estudis Occitans).

The Gascon dialect of the Aran valley (politically united to Catalonia in the Middle Ages) has official status and has been standarized coherently with Languedocian. In contrast, the French government doesn't recognize any official status to any languages other than French. No wonder is this the cause of the lack of a common standard for all varieties, as it's also a major danger for thier survival.