From: tgpedersen
Message: 62983
Date: 2009-02-12
>Let's continue on the idea that *wan- > *wã- had to do with erring and
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Francesco Brighenti" <frabrig@>
> wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > > Wakrolayo:?... There's no uacco: in Latin and uaco: means
> > > something else...
> >
> > I, too, don't like Hofmann's etymology *wak-ro-layo: > *wakello: >
> > vacillo: (cited in my earlier post), so I have made another try.
> >
> > A. Ernout ("Vaccillo ou talipedo?", _Revue de philologie, de
> > littérature et d'histoire anciennes_, ser. 3:1 =53, 1927, p. 208)
> > thinks that the Latin verb vacillo: `to sway to and fro, waver,
> > totter, vacillate' and its variant form vaccillo:, which appears
> > to have existed side by side with it, can be connected to a
> > family of adjectives designating deformities of human legs:
> > va:rus, vatius, vata:x, and vascus.
>
> I agree, but look here, one click removed from the Pokorny gloss you
> referred to:
> Baltic: http://tinyurl.com/58gxwq
> Germanic: http://tinyurl.com/5rnlkn
>
> (as usual Pokorny neglects Danish; there's none of the vang "sides
> of a ladder; (part of) field" stuff which Swedish doesn't have.
>
>
> The whole mess of those alternating Baltic and Gmc alternating roots
> might possibly be cleared up if this paradigm was in effect for the
> donor language:
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/46161
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/46183
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/46264
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/46982
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/52335
>
> In other words,
> 3sg. *wax-ti, *wa:ti, 3pl. wang^énti, ppp. *wax-tó > *wak-tó-
> I think such a language, if it were also an a-language, might give
> us those of the roots which have root vowel /a/, the rest might be
> 'regular' Germanic, with /en/ > /in/.
>
>
>
> > Pokorny suggests the following Latin adjectives, all referring to
> > certain malformations of human legs, may be extensions of the PIE
> > root *wa:- `apart':
> >
> > 1) va:rus `bent (apart), stretched, or grown inwards; hence, of
> > persons with legs bent inwards, knock-kneed' (this adjective may
> > be cognate with valgus `having the calves of the legs bent
> > outwards, bow-legged' if the latter term is not from a guttural
> > extension of
> > PIE *wel- `to turn, bend') > va:ricus `with feet spread apart'
> >
> > And, from the dental extension *wa:-t-:
> >
> > 2) vata:x `having crooked feet'
> >
> > 3) vatius `bent outwards' (hence, of person with legs bent
> > outwards) > vatia `a bow-legged man'
> >
> > 4) vascus (badly attested, and perhaps from *vat-scos) `across,
> > transversal, slant'
>
> And here is de Vries on ON:
> 'váma f. 'unwohlsem',
> nisl. voma 'ekel; unsicherheit',
> nnorw. vaam 'mudigkeit, unwohlsein, dunkelheit', zu
> vaamen 'nicht ganz frisch'
> (> shetl. vomin, vomd 'leicht verwest von fischen,
> s. Jakobsen 1019),
> vgl.
> nisl. væma 'ubelkeit empfinden', vminn, nnorw. dial. væmen 'ubel',
> abl. aschw. vami 'ekel', vamul,
> nda. vammel 'ekelhaft',
> und nnorw. dial. vimra 'ubelkeit verursachen',
> vimla 'ubelkeit empfinden'.
> ai. vamiti, gr. eméo:, lat. vomo, lit. vemiù, vémti 'erbrechen'.
> vgl. vamla, vamm, vámr, und oman.
> vamla schw. V. 'übel werden', nisl. norw. vamla, nda. vamle.
> ne. wamble.
> vgl. váma.
>
> vamm n. 'schaden, gebrechen, flecken', nisl. far. vamm, nnorw. vam
> 'ungluck'.
> > shetl vam{m) 'zauberkraftige einwirkung; slechte gesinnung'
> (Jakobsen 977), > finn. vamma, vammas 'fehler, gebrechen, wunde'
> (Thomsen 2, 227).
> got. wamm 'flecken', ae. afr. ahd. wamm, as. wam 'flecken, schande';
> abstr. zu adj. got. unwamms 'tadellos', ae. wamm, as. ahd. wam
> 'schlecht'.
> vgl. vo,m und viell. zu váma (Uhlenbeck PBB 30, 1905, 324).
> Zur bed.entw. s. Weisweiler IF 41, 1923, 46. 'beschadigung, fleck,
> schmutz' > 'ehrenkrankung, tadel' > 'Schandtat, laster'.
> vámr m. 'ekelhafter mensch', nisl. vomur. vgl. váma.
> vo,mm f. 'schande'. vgl. vamm.
> '
>
> and to make matters worse, it has (says I), a g- variant
>
> 'gabb 'spott', nisl. fär. gabb, aschw. gab und gabba schw. V. 'zum
> narren halten',
> nisl. fär. aschw. gabba, adä. gabbe.
> me. gabben 'spotten, betrügen', afr. gabbia 'verklagen', mnl. gabben
> 'possen machen', mnd. gabben 'narren' (aus germ. stammt afrz. gab
> 'spott', nfrz. gaber 'hänseln' und nicht umgekehrt!
> s. Gamillscheg 449).
> Frequentative nebenformen:
> mnl. gabbelen 'lachen, schwatzen' und nnl. ginnegappen neben älter
> ginnegabben 'kichern', daneben nhd. gaffeln 'lachen, schwatzen', ae.
> gaffetung 'spott'.
> Die reiche entw. beweist den germ. charakter; hinzukommen
> onomatopoetische bildungen (Ehrismann PBB 22, 1897, 564).
> Wechselformen sind weiter
> *gaB vgl. prät. gafði; s. für Wechsel bb: B v. Friesen, Mediogem.
> 36-40 und Bloomfield, Fschr. Sievers 1925, 101) und
> *gap
> (vgl. gapa; s. für Wechsel bb: p Hellquist GHÅ 14, 1908 Nr 2, 13).
> Dazu noch mhd. gampel, gimpel 'mit dem man seinen spott treibt',
> gampen 'scherzen' (Solmsen IF 30, 1912, 7).
> vgl. gambra.
> gamall adj. 'alt' auch PN., nisl. gamall, fär. gamal(ur), nnorw.
> gamal, nschw. gammal, ndä. gammel, vgl. shetl. gammel (Jakobsen
> 200).
> ae. gamol, mnl. gamel, ahd. gamal- 'alt';
> dazu ae. gamelian, mnd. gamelen 'alt werden', as. gigamalo:d
> 'betagt, bejahrt'. vgl. gemlingr.
> Erklärung ist unsicher:
> ...
>
> gaman n. 'freude; spass; wollust', nisl. fär. nnorw. gaman, nschw.
> gamman, ndä. gammen. ae. gamen, afr. game, gome f., as. ahd. gaman
> 'freude, Unterhaltung, spiel', mnl. game 'streich, spott'. Weiter
> gehören dazu adä. gammel, mhd. gamel 'scherz', nhd. dial. gammel
> 'wollust', und nnorw. dial. gams 'ausgelassener scherz', nisl. gems
> 'anstössiges betragen', nnorw. dial. gamast 'sich freuen, spassen';
> vgl. gamðir, gamna, gemsa und gumsa.
> Weitere anknüpfungen unsicher. Vielleicht grundbedeutung 'hüpfen,
> springen' (Wiedemann BB 27, 1902, 202) und dann zu lat. fumus
> 'rauch', gr. thúmos 'gemutswallung, geist', ahd. toum 'dampf,
> dunst' (WP 1,
> 678); andere dagegen zu gr. athembou~sa 'ausgelassen' (IEW 490).
> Mit präf. ga- aus *ga-am zu lat. amare (Wadstein IF 5, 1895, 8;
> unmöglich). Zu der unter gamall erwähnten wzl *gam 'ernähren,
> essen, sich freuen' (Rooth, Altg. Wortstud. 42).
> gamban- in Zss. gambansumbl 'feierliches gelage',
> gambanreiði 'grosser zorn',
> gambanteinn 'zauberrute'.
> Erklärung unsicher.
> Ansprechend < *ga-amban (zu o,mbun), eig. partiz. zu dem in afl und
> afli vorliegenden stamm *aB
> (v. Hamel Nph 17, 1932, 136-43 und 234-9).
> Dagegen wenig einleuchtend zu einer wzl *gam 'ernähren, essen',
> also wie gamall und gaman (Rooth, Altg. Wortstud. 45).
> Unmöglich < *gand-band (A. Kock ANF 27, 1911, 114-21).
> Man muss wohl von einer magisch-religiösen bedeutung ausgehen.
> gambr m. 'greif (spät bezeugt). vgl. gammr.
> gambra schw. V. 'sich brüsten, prahlen', nisl. gambra.
> vgl. gimbing.
> Möglich mit nasal-infigierung zu gabb, oder erw. des in gana
> vorliegenden Stammes; in beiden
> gammr, gambr m. 'greif, nisl far. gammur, nnorw. gamber, nschw.
> gam(m), ada. gam.
> Zusammenhangend mit oder eher mittelbar entlehnt
> < mhd. gampilu:n, gabilu:n 'drachenartiges tier'
> < roman. vgl. span. gavilan 'sperber', piov. gavanh 'raubvogel'.
> gamna schw. V. 'erfreuen', nisl. gamna, ae. gamman.
> vgl. gaman.'
>
> and is therefore substrate (says I too).
>
>
>
> > According to Ernout, vacillo:/vaccillo: (uacillo:/uacillo:) can
> > be derived from an unattested Latin adjective *uaccus on the
> > analogy of offa :: ofella, mamma :: mamilla, pu:s(s)us ::
> > pusillus, saccus :: sacellus etc.
>
> But oddly enough, that adj. already exists in Gmc.:
> Goth. un-wah-s "blameless", OHG wo:h "krumm, ungerecht".
>
>
> > The suffix -co in the posited adjective *uaccus is
> > characteristic of deformities: compare the adjectives mancus,
> > broc(c)us, raucus, caecus, as well as the denominative verb
> > pecco:.
>
> Aha. pecco:
>
>
> > *uaccus could have derived either from *wa:-t(o)-ko-s (cf.
> > Pokorny's root extension *wa:t-, above) or from *wa-:ko-s (cf.
> > Pokorny's root *wa:-, above) through expressive gemination of the
> > consonant which is "caractéristique de mots de ce type, qui
> > appartiennent à la langue familière".
>
> Yup. Mot populaire.
> Maybe it's time we give a name to that a-language substrate.
> Oenotrian? Aboriginal?
> http://tinyurl.com/5zrry9
> Which of course doesn't preclude uacillo: being a loan from Germanic
> or a substrate of Germanic (and Baltic and Baltic Finnic)
>
>
> > Lastly, Ernout thinks that an equally unattested denominative
> > verb *uacco: may have bridged the gap between *uaccus and
> > uaccillo:.
>
> It did too. In Germanic, or rather High German, which is surprising.
> And it's documented.
>
> > This is because the formation of uaccillo: reminds him of those
> > of sorbillo: from sorbeo:, of su:gillo: from su:go:, of
> > murmurillo: from murmuro:.
>
> It reminds me of the rather frequent frequentative -el- of German.
>
> > I have also found mention of an interpretation by F. Sommer
> > according to which the gemination of the consonant in uac[c]illo:
> > could be motivated by a folk etymology connecting this verb with
> > the term vacca (uacca); thus, uaccillo: = `to waddle like a cow'!
>
> How about this:
> Gmc. wank- "vagari", so, vacca = a cow left to its own devices in
> the meadows (*vang-), as opposed to one in the stable?
> http://runeberg.org/svetym/1177.html