CYBALISTS' RESPONSES :
Richard:
Written Welsh
<f> represents spoken /v/, and derives from intervocalic /b/ or /m/ in
Proto-Celtic or Latin. This makes the phonetic match
poor.
*------------------------------------------------------*
Arnaud:
LAtin
calamus is a loan-work of Greek kalamos, which I suppose represents *kl.H2-mo's
Arabic Q should not be PIE *k and Qalam is lacking the expected H2. The vocalic
scheme a_a is kind of odd in a noun, I guess **qalm would be more
native-sounding. As a matter of fact, this word qalam looks like a borrowing of
kalamos.
*------------------------------------------------------*
Peter:
That is a distinction I would find hard to
believe for Latin. Latin often uses the material for an object made from
the material (especially, but not only, in poetry). As it happens, Calamus
is used for reed fairly extensively. Youll find examples in Pliny,
Horace, Cato, Vergil, Tibullus,, Lucretius and Ovid, all quoted in my
dictionary.
*------------------------------------------------------*
Guto:
Are there any Celticists who could confirm
or refute the possibility that the Welsh, Cornish and Breton forms are cognates
rather than borrowings from Latin? Any idea whether Clt *calam- would be a
robust cognate of the Gk
form?
*------------------------------------------------------*
Brian:
I
note that Jackson, LHEB, uses Welsh <calaf> as an example of a borrowing
of cultivated Latin usage that preserved the post-tonic penultimate syllable:
Lat. cálamus > Brit.*calámo- > Welsh
calaf.
*------------------------------------------------------*
Ishinan's comment :
From all the responses
I have observed so far, it is accurate to say that my suggestion has not
been accepted. The majority of the members are more inclined to follow the
official line; firmly believing that the Welsh "calaf" is indeed a LW from
the Classical Latin calamus.
In addition, the discussion seems to
be zeroing on the status of the final Welsh letter f "èf" and what its origin might have been, rather
then focusing on the status of the initial letter c "èc". Strangely but not unexpectedly, nobody, so
far, has questioned if the original form of the the Welsh term
"calaf" started with a letter c "èc". As a consequence, the fate of this initial
c "èc" goes on unscathed, unquestioned
and therefore is never being subjected to proper scrutiny.
This inclination is depicted in the following
responses:
As Richard puts it " derives from intervocalic /b/ or
/m/ in Proto-Celtic or Latin". Brian following the same line, alludes to
"the post-tonic penultimate syllable: Lat. cálamus > Brit.*calámo- > Welsh
calaf." Arnaud delved into the topic of Greek kalamos, which he supposes it
represents *kl.H2-mo's versus the Arabic qalam. Emboldened, he goes as far
as linking the Greek Kalamos to Proto-Altaic: *kalo. Since many of
Arnaud's suggestions are simultaneously branching into different tracks, I will
resist the temptation to answer Arnaud immediately*. For the moment my aim
is to stay on topic. So for the time being, I will opt to
concentrate on the main aspect of the inquiry echoed by Guto's
question:
"who could confirm or refute the
possibility that the Welsh, Cornish and Breton forms are cognates rather than
borrowings from Latin?"
"CALAF" THROUGH
WELSH EYES
My mind is not preordained to blindly accept the
traditional way, without proper investigation, the attribution
of the term "calaf" to Latin "calamus". Further, to be on topic
and avoiding being distracted, I will set aside, momentarily, the merit or
lack thereof of my previous suggestion concerning the Arabic
"glf". Instead, I will attempt at looking at the problem through Welsh
eyes.
Hence, if we carry an investigation into the
history of "calaf", we soon find out that Welsh tradition has it, that
"calaf" with initial èc was an orthographic
novelty introduced by Norman scribers of the Cymraeg Canol (Middle
Welsh) period onwards and not before.
Prior to this, "calaf" was written "galaf" with an
initial èg not èc. As a matter of fact ancient
Brythonic /Welsh "*galaf" as a term, existed in the far, far remote past.
It existed before the time when Hen Gymraeg (Old Welsh) developed from the
Brythonic language .
To be precise, "galaf", was around prior
to Roman legions setting their eyes on any Celtic iron age settlements in
Wales. Actually, the age of "galaf" goes back in time
when the British isle was archeologically labeled: Britain of late pre-Roman
Iron Age.
Then, "galaf" was frequently found in compounds
such as " Cangaleifon", and "Gwyngalaf" (gwyn = white + galaf =
stalks). These were in reference to the old names of the Druidic months of
August and September. These were in allusion to the whitened appearance of
stalks (Cf. Gwyngalaf, another old name for the same months.) and were
often mentioned in 'The Wood Memorials of the
Bards'- see "The Barddas of Iolo Morganwg";
a Collection of Original Documents, illustrative of the Theology, Wisdom, and
Usages of the Bardo-Druidic System of the Isle of Britain. i.412,
416.
You are more than welcome to view the scanned
definition from the Welsh dictionary (fig. #4 at the bottom of the web
page) by clicking the following URL :
Though it is an established fact that
when Roman alphabet was introduced into Britain, c represented only /k/ and
this value of the letter has been retained in loanwords to all the insular
Celtic languages: in Welsh, Irish, Gaelic, c, is still only /k/.
However, this rule does not apply here, since we discover that the
original form of the term "galaf " is with an initial èg not èc. Incidentally, the Welsh "èg" dates from the
reign of Beli Mawr (Beli the Great) when it was introduced and added to the
Welsh alphabet, along eight other characters (these being M N B Ff D U and Dd.)
In my opinion, these combined facts represent
the death knoll of the prevalent argument in favor of a LW from Latin.
Especially, when the term "galaf", as a Druidic
term, obviously existed long before Vespasian took a Roman force
westwards in Wales subduing tribes and capturing Welsh oppida.
The whole point of this investigation is
quite simple. It gives a surety of authenticity to the existence of
"*galaf" as a native Welsh term, centuries before any Roman invasion.
Based on this fact, I would say to Guto: Any idea of the existence of a "
Clt *calam" is definitely out of question.
As the ancient Druidic saying goes, "Nothing
can be known of the truth save through the light which is shed upon
it'".
I rest my case.
Ishinan
February 5,
2009
___________________________________________
*I will
reserve my refutation to Arnaud's points in a
separate message later on. These are:
Pt1 : a_a is a strange Arabic scheme in a noun,
Pt2 :
there is H2 in Greek, lacking in Arabic
Pt3 : I don't think q can normally
correspond with PIE *k
Pt4 : His latest Proto-Altaic:
*kalo link.
.