________________________________
From: Arnaud Fournet <
fournet.arnaud@...>
To:
cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:28:38 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Sos-
Some informative maps
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Asia_ 200bc.jpg
****GK: This map is very odd. It places "Dahae" where Sakas are usually located, and vice-versa, and places the Yuechi at their 130's BCE haunts. Nor does it differentiate the various components of the "Hsiung-Nu" empire
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Ob_watershe d.png
===
Thanks !
A.
Pulleyblank
The Consonantal System of Old Chinese
has some phonetic information about the Hsiung-nu language
(pp 139-140):
'In support of the hypothesis of labials in this series we may note
the probable connection of .. M. hyon, "breast" with Tibetan bran
(Simon 1929, p. 172). This would indicate *fl- rather than *f- -
probably .., .. should be reconstructed as *fo:n, and the subseries of
.. (.. .. ..) was distinguished by the presence of medial -1-. We have
noted above that *fl could give either *h or *t.h. This reconstruction
is further supported by the probable equation of the name of the
Hsiung-nu . .. M. hyon,-nou < *flo:n,-nah^ with the Phrouñoi of
Apollodorus (Haloun 1937, p. 306, n. 1). As Haloun says, "Die
sachliche Identität ist m. E. unabweisbar" . This equation does not
exclude the possibility of connecting the name of the Hsiung-nu with
the Hu:n.a of India and the Khou~noi, O´u~noi, Hunni of western
writers as has sometimes been thought. There is reason to think that
there may have been a simplification of the initial in the Hsiung-nu
language pari passu with the simplification in Chinese, and perhaps
under similar influence, that of the original labial fricative in
Hsiung-nu had become a laryngal or velar fricative. Presumably this is
indicated also by Greek gamma-. A still later loss of -r- would give
us the Sogdian xwn of the early fourth-century letters (Henning 1948,
p. 615). [All Chinese character have been replaced by '..')
'
So, initial clusters in proto-Yeniseian? Could that explain the s/t/l
altenation of Yeniseian and Ostyak? BTW, why were the Yeniseians so
long called Yenisei Ostyak? Were they that difficult to tell apart?
=====
Ostyak is about as precise as the word "tatar" used to be describing any
non-Russian individual of the Russian empire.
Baxter's reconstruction does not support **flo:n,-nah^
It would rather be *HiroN-na
A.