Re: The Romanian Family name Pencea

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "altamix" <alxmoeller@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"

<alexandru_mg3@>

> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There is a Romanian Family Name Pencea /penc^a/
> > > >
> > > > Is strong related to the Romanian Areal: see this Google

> > > > http://www.google.co.uk/search?
> > > > hl=en&q=pencea&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
> > > > that gives you only Romanian Persons.
> > > >
> > > > I cannot stop myself, not to think, that its meeaning is 'The
> > > > Fifth' or
> > > > something similar and is an indication that the Proto-

Albanian

> > > > reconstruction of 'five' is a correct one:
> > > >
> > > > Proto-Albanian Reconstruction of today Albanian /pes&/ 'five'
> is
> > > > *penc^e/*penc^a:
> > > >
> > > > Romanian Preserved the c^ from of the Substratum (see
> > > > cioara /c^wara/ )
> > > >
> > > > Marius
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Phoneticaly the "e" in Pencea does not speak about an old
> > > name. I would expect "Pincea" since each old "-anC-" or "-enC"
> and
> > > sometimes even "-unC" gives an "ânC". Later, this "ânC" changed
> > > to "inC" if in the next syllable is followed by an "i" or "e".
> > >
> > > ( see "sfânt" versus "sfintsi", vânãt instead of "vinetsi", as
> for
> > > names, see Pintea as something very appropiate to Pencea ) etc.
> > >
> > > For sustaining this is an old name and implicitely it should

have

> > > something to do with the Albanian "pesë" there should be some
> > > examples of "ânC" becomming "enC" in a certain phonological
> medium.
> > > Are there any?
> > >
> > > Alex
> > >
> >
> > You are right:
> > The rules are :
> > e/mC > imC [simt,i < sentire ; timp < tempus]
> > e/nC > inC [dinte < dentis]
> >
> > But as you know minciuna is ONLY a very recent form of
> > menciun~a
> > menciunos
> > menciunros
> > so /i/ in /minc^una/ cannot be taken into account as an old
> > transformation
> >
> > Similar /e/ in 'lege' cannot be accounted as /e/ but as /ea/
> > or /a/ in 'masa' cannot be accounted as /a/ but as /ea/ etc...

(no

> > link with the topic only for similarity)
> >
> > "totu-i un lucru menciunos si sã cheamã menciunos, sot
> > furtusagului" (P Înv. 84 IV 2);.
> > "Fu măscărit ca un menciunos" (VARL.).
> >
> > to put only the quotations that could be found on google too
> > http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=menciunos&meta=
> >
> >
> > So my point is: that in (m/p)/-enc^-/ the e is preserved due to

> >
> > Marius
>
>
> Also the preservation of e in Albanian /pes&/ from PAlb. *penc^-
> 'is strange too'...
>
> You can compare it with the /i/ of Albanian mish 'meat' < *memso
>
> Marius

I mean: I have the same explanation regarding the preservation
of /e/ in Albanian pes&

Marius