Re: Vowels and Laryngeals (was * Re: Push (3)

From: Arnaud Fournet
Message: 62472
Date: 2009-01-12

I've been looking at this "problem" of PIE not having the expected
laryngeals when compared for example to Semitic.
The issues of the laryngeals and the vocalic system are obviously related.
The question is why are some H2 considered H1 and vice versa.

A possible answer may lie a vocalic system of the kind once proposed by
Carrasquer Vidal.
That is :
pre-PIE i i: > i e
pre-PIE a a: > e o
pre-PIE o o: > o
pre-PIE u u: > u o
I suppose that length and stress are the same in that pre-PIE stage, before
the vocalic shift (and mergers).

This idea is that any e originating in pre-PIE *i(:) causes eH > e:
whatever H was
and any e originating in pre-PIE *a(:) causes eH > a:
In other words, the standard reconstructions : eH1 and eH2 are reflecting
pre-PIE *iH1/2 and *aH1/2.
The difference is in the vowels, not the consonants.
This idea, if true, would require a complete overhaul of many
reconstructions.

To test that idea, one needs some examples of H2i- being interpreted as H1e
(erroneously).

If we take examples of Arabic &i- with &ayin, which is H2.
Example :
&ida? "hatred, animosity"
Cf. odium and Hittite Hatuka and Armenian ateam
This is to show that & is (one form of) H2

Now if we look at &it.r "aroma" = od-or,
It seems Albanese has words with a-(meze) (is this a proof of H2 ?)
I wonder if elaiFa "olive" is not &it. with &i looking like H1e
I agree elaiFa is not supposed to derive from H2_d
but this may be an idea.
I suppose somebody suggested that connection before.

Another example is &ifr "pig"
German is Eber looking like H1epr-
I agree this example is also a bit weak
as this word is fairly mixed up with things like wepr- etc.
LAtin aper may just be H2°pr- (with mobile stress ?)

Another much better case is wa-hig/ya-hig "shine like fire" and ?ig "fire"
it works like H1eg from the PIE point of view *egn-
LAtin ig-nis
I suppose some people will interpret this as meaning H1 is ?
(which I consider wrong Cf. Hafil, wafil = pleH1-no and polu).
Latin ig-nis with #i- coinciding with ?ig- is in fact a very good example
supporting the idea that i/e alternate.
And we find support for *i in Chamito-Semitic.

I have not looked at words with H1a- (erroneously) interpreted as H2e-

A.