From: Arnaud Fournet
Message: 62039
Date: 2008-12-13
----- Original Message -----
From: "Francesco Brighenti" <frabrig@...>
I have presently no time to get involved in a linguistic discussion
on terms for 'camel', but, only to put the record straight:
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Put the record straight ??
Who are you to believe you have the Very Truth ?
A.
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1) Talageri is right in stating that the above Dravidian words for
camel, lion and rhino were borrowed from Indo-Aryan. Indeed, Proto-
Dravidian has no names for these three animals (see B. Krishnamurti,
_The Dravidian Languages_, Cambridge Univ. Press 2003, p. 15).
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No, Dear Francesco
I wonder how Kannada-Telugu oNTe can be derived from us^tra ??
and the same question applies to WPah u:NT
Is there a law changing s^ in N in those languages ?
There exists another form oNT- which has nothing to do with us^tra
and this word exists in other languages like Urartean ultu.
Your statement is therefore dead wrong.
And see below your own contradictions.
A.
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2) Pace Arnaud (msg. #62026), no Proto-Dravidian word *oNT- 'a kind
of domesticated animal (> camel)', cognate with the vaguely similar-
sounding Sumerian/Akkadian, Turkic or Tibetan words he mentions in
his post, can be reconstructed; hence, there is no chance for such a
non-existing proto-form to have been taken over by Santali and Khasi
(i.e. Austro-Asiatic) speakers in the form Ut/ut 'camel'. A cursory
look at the entry uSTra in Turner's _Comparative Dictionary of the
Indo-Aryan Languages_ at http://tinyurl.com/54umrn
will suffice to understand that the sources for the Dravidian and
Austro-Asiatic words for 'camel' mentioned by Talageri (see above)
are Middle Indo-Aryan forms such as Pali oTTha, Prakrit uTTa;
compare also Sinhalese oTuvaa. As regards Santali and Khasi
specifically, compare Assamese and Bengali uT, Oriya uTa ~ oTa,
Hindi U~T. All of these words, derived from Old Indo Aryan uSTra,
mean 'camel'.
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No,
See above.
Your doctrinal wording sounds very scientific
You nearly sounds like M. Gasiorowski,
congratulations
but I'm afraid the content is wrong.
A.
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3) According to Mayrhofer (EWA I 238, KEWA III 652) and Diakonoff
(JAOS 105, 1985, 600), Middle and Late Akkadian udru 'two-humped
camel' is a loan from Iran (not sure whether from Old Iranian us^tra
or from some non-documented Central Asian substrate language -- see
point 5).
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udru 'two-humped camel'
One more word deriving from *oNT.-
How contradictory !!
You are now providing more data for my reconstruction !!
Hope you still have some time to spare for a discussion.
Best regards, Dear Francesco.
A.
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