Re: Breton - Slovenian correspondences

--- On Fri, 11/14/08, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> From: tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>
> Subject: [tied] Re: Breton - Slovenian correspondences
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 4:45 PM
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen"
> <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> >
> > > > > In Joz^ef S^avli/Matej Bor: Unsere
> Vorfahren die Veneter
> > > > > (review of the English translation
> here:
> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/6jn43n )
> >
> > Here are the alleged Breton - Slovenian correspondent
> words (pp.
> > 339-343, translated
> >
> > It is of course interesting which of the words are
> only Breton and
> > Slovenian and which are generally Celtic and Slavic,
> respectively.
> > Comments are appreciated.
>
> ...
>
> > bistro, adj. — (lait) qui file; milk (flowing). The
> word is very
> > interesting, since the Slov. bister — bistra —
> bistro (Old Slavic
> > bystrU) at the same time means fast, lively, agile and
> also clear.
> > "The idea of being rapid is also connected with
> the idea of
> > clearness" (Plet.). Eg. bistra voda (flowing and
> clear water). Both
> > meaning nuances exist in Russian. Wrt. to the Breton
> bistro the
> > French Etym. Dictionary notes: "mot obscur".
> If we explain it on
> > the basis of the Slavic and Slovenian vocabulary,
> bistro is no
> > longer an obscure word, but quite clear: bistro is the
> desk, where
> > clear, original (bistro) milk and later wein was
> served.

I seem to remember that the Breton word for "lively" begins with bis-, I saw this when I was looking at Basque bizi

>
> Zbigniew Gol/a,b,
> The Origins of the Slavs, pp. 126-7, 140, 141
>
> 'But before that we should still discuss the problem of
> the North IE
> vocabulary as reflected by Germanic, Baltic, and Slavic
> correspondences.
> In the preceding chapter we mentioned some phonemic and
> morphemic
> features which characterize the prehistorical
> North-European dialectal
> zone of Proto-Indo-European, i.e. the zone including later
> (historical) Germanic, Baltic, and Slavic languages. But,
> as usually
> is the case with dialectal phenomena, we can also find in
> this zone
> many common prehistorical lexical phenomena, the so-called
> North-European lexical dialectisms.14 Most of these lexical
> dialectisms undoubtedly come from a time when the
> linguistic ancestors
> of the Slavs, Baits, and Teutons dwelt close to each other,
> as a group
> of neighboring tribes somewhere in Eastern Europe, probably
> in the
> third millenium B.C. So we may be dealing here with the
> so-called
> areal phenomena: a word formed in one dialect, let us say,
> in
> Pre-Germanic or Pre-Balto-Slavic, could penetrate other
> dialects of
> the zone because social contacts (e.g. barter trade between
> the
> respective tribes) made this possible.
> The problem of the North European lexical dialectisms in
> question has
> been recently treated in a special study by Chr. Stang
> (1972). What
> follows is a critical survey of Stangs material with
> supplements from
> C^emodanov (1962) and Trubac^ev (1966) whose books did not
> reach
> Stang's attention. Facts of Slavic will often be
> illustrated with
> additional data from Berneker's, Vasmer's, and
> other dictionaries.
> The special lexical correspondences among Germanic, Baltic,
> and Slavic
> (henceforth Germc. ~ Balto-Slav.) should be divided into
> three
> subgroups: 1. Germc. ~ Balto-Slav., i.e. words common to
> all three
> linguistic groups; 2. Germc. ~ Baltic, i.e. words common to
> Germanic
> and Baltic only; 3. Germc. ~ Slavic, i.e. words common to
> Germanic and
> Slavic only. It is obvious that for our purposes the second
> subgroup
> is not important, and can be omitted. So we shall review
> words common
> to all three linguistic groups, and those common to Germc.
> and Slavic
> only.
> ...
> II. Germc. ~ Slavic
> ...
> 8.) bystrU 'quick', attested in all Slavic
> languages, e.g.
> OCS bystrU, 'schnell, verschlagen',
> Russ. býstryj 'schnell, scharfsichtig',
> S-C b`ìstar 'klar' (cf. bìstrica as a frequent
> hydronym),
> Pol. bystry 'reissend, schnell', etc..
> —
> OIc. bysja 'mit grosser Gewalt ausströmen',
> Norw. dial. busa 'hervorstürzen':
>
> PIE archetype for Slavic *bhu:s-ro-
> (Stang 16, see also Berneker 113).'
>
>
> DEO:
> buse v., no. d.s., sv. busa, mnty. bu:sen 'svire'
> [carouse], ty.
> bausen, 'svulme; svire', eng. bouse
> 'svire', østfris. bu:sen 'være
> voldsom, bruse, larme, storme'; jf en afledt form som
> no.dial.,
> oldnord. bysja 'strømme, fare frem,' og en
> aflydende som no.dial.
> bøysa 'buse frem' ...
>
> Since in some river names we have /u/ > /i/,
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/59166
> (the Kuhn quote)
> I added:
>
> bister adj., ænyda. no., sv. d.-s.;
> lån fra mnty. bi:ster 'omflakkende [vagrant],
> vildfarende [errant],
> forvildet, forvirret, barsk'; måske en afledning til
> III bisse.
> ...
> III. bisse v. 'løbe vildt afsted el. omkring; flakke
> om';
> glda. bis(s)e, da.dial. bese, sv besa, mnty bis(s)en,
> oldhty. biso:n,
> ty. biesen; jf oldhty. bi:sa 'nordøstvind'. ...
>
>
> Now *that*, I think, needs a really good explanation
>
>
> Torsten