From: Arnaud Fournet
Message: 61556
Date: 2008-11-12
----- Original Message -----
From: "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: [pieml] Labiovelars versus Palatals + Labiovelar
Approximant
>
> On 2008-11-11 22:05, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>
>> Example :
>> *puH1 > pH1u
>> Greek phusa, Armenian phukh, Indic phut-
>> (But Basque buhatu, Uralic puj-)
>
> Pff! Don't forget Eng. phew and (Winnie the) Pooh.
============
Phew : used to express relief, fatigue, surprise or disgust.
I can't see the connection with *puh1
Please explain.
A.
==============
An obviously
> onomatopoeic root is of little use in comparative analyses, even if
> something like *p(H)uh1- is vaguely reconstructible for PIE. It is good
> linguistic practice to disqualify such forms as evidence if you're
> trying to establish a sound correspondence.
==========
Onomatopeic words very often end up working like standard words.
Pigeon does not look onomatopeic but pipio does.
Anyway about everything is somehow onomatopeic.
*Gwow cow is, and H2ak "stone" as well.
A.
========
But if you insist on using
> it, the Armenian 'wind' word is really <pHowkH> (< *pHuh1-ko-, according
> to Olsen), and the Greek 'breath' word is <pHûsa>, both reflecting
> _long_ *u:, and therefore _not_ derivable from *ph1u-.
>
============
Lejeune writes Armenian as being phukh
which is why I wrote it that way.
Anyway pHowkH can be from *ph1u > *PH_u > *phow-
the vowel u is reinterpreted as w and a vowel o is inserted.
standard IE morphonology.
Greek is not attested in Ionian
it's a LW from some other dialect/language
for that matter, the exact prototype cannot be stated.
Anyway, lenghthening of u is standard procedure in Greek.
Cf. verbs in nu(:)-mi
A.
======
>> I think my new proposal works.
>> => Your turn.
>
> You haven't finished your turn. Your proposal "works" with two examples
> and a rule designed specifically to explain their different behaviour.
> There's nothing to reject here.
> > Piotr
=======
Currently three
*puH1
*kuH2-on
*bhuH1
It's interesting to note that *tu(H) "you" is -th-a in perfect.
You have not explained if
k^H and kH can be distinguished ?
A.
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