From: Rick McCallister
Message: 61522
Date: 2008-11-10
> From: Arnaud Fournet <fournet.arnaud@...>These are the words I was taught in Arabic class many years ago. I've heard them used by Lebanese, Jordanians, Iraqis, Libyans, Moroccans, Kuwaitis, Egyptians, etc. The terms are definitely Arabic but probably are not original in Arabic but I didn't say they were, just that bata and fustán would be the ones that might be. They do show up in Wehr, as I remember.
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: [tied] Re: oldest places- and watername in Scandinavia
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 3:10 PM
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick McCallister"
> <gabaroo6958@...>
> >
>
> > zapato/s.abat;
> > fustán/fustan
> > camisa/qamis (< Celtic supposedly)
> > calzón/kalsun (sp? --I don't know if qaf and s.ad
> or
> > not)
> > etc.
> >
> > =============
> >
> > I can't find them in Kazimirski
> > so I don't think they are "Arabic"
> > and therefore anything like "cognate".
> >
> > Maybe some varieties of Arabic have late LW from
> Spanish.
> >
> > A.
>
> As far as I know these are all over Arabic and some items
> have spread to
> Hindi-Urdu, etc. e.g. kamis.
> I use cognate here just mean "common origin"
> whether as loan words from one
> to the other or whatnot.
> Spanish camisa, French chemise, Italian camincia are
> usually ascribed to
> Celtic, see German Hemd (vel sim) and some Vulgar Latin
> term is responsible
> for this word in Arabic et al.
> The others are probably mainly from vulgar Latin. Fustán
> "night gown"
> (Arabic fustan "dress") is the only one I'd
> guess as from Arabic to Spanish
>
>
> ============
>
> I'm afraid you don't know _early_ enough.
> None of these words belong to Classical Arabic.
> The claim the direction of borrowing should be from Arabic
> to anything else
> seems highly suspect.
> A euphemism for definitely impossible.
>
> Arabic qamîs used to mean "cloth, material to make
> clothes with"
> It's a chance look-alike with camisia "shirt"
> Fustân does not exist in Classical Arabic
> and only in modern Arabic.
>
> There is nothing like kals(.)un or qals(.)un
> in either classical or modern Arabic.
>
> I guess it would be nice if you could provide some
> references.
>
> A.