From: Rick McCallister
Message: 61428
Date: 2008-11-06
> From: tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>Spain and Portugal were only together for 60 years (1580-1640), the "Babylonian Captivity" according to the Portuguese. But by that time, the languages had already completed most of the convergence, which I guess, was due to the Renaissance.
> Subject: [tied] Re: Scandinavia and the Germanic tribes such as Goths, Vandals, Angli and Saxones.
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 6:21 PM
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
> <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Brian M. Scott
> <BMScott@...> wrote:
> > . . .
> > Note too that we sometimes
> > > underestimate the percentage of loans in some
> other
> > > languages. French, for instance, borrowed quite
> > > extensively
> > > from Latin at various times, but because it's
> a Romance
> > > language, we tend not to notice this.
> > >
> > . . .
> > >
> > > Brian
> >
> > Is there a term for this intra-family borrowing that
> has made modern
> Spanish and Portuguese look closer than their medieval
> ancestors?
> > Both Spanish and Portuguese have flor
> "flower" but Medieval
> Portuguese was fror and chor /Sor/, common in Medieval
> Spanish and
> modern rural Spanish is jlor /hlor/. Spanish and Portuguese
> borrowed
> from one another but also from Catalan, Italian, French and
> Latin to
> such a large degree that lexico-chronology has them
> splitting c. 1500.
> In American Spanish and Portuguese, things got even more
> muddied
> between Spanish and Portuguese to the extent that regional,
> slang and
> rural terms in one language are often the standard terms in
> the other.
> > Slavic languages, I am told, do the same.
> > And I imagine Scandinavian problably does the same as
> well.
>
> Danish/Swedish and Spanish/Portuguese have a trait in
> commin in their
> history: they were for a considerable time part of one
> political
> entity. Hence the partial convergence, and later
> divergence.
>
>
> Torsten