--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "G&P" <G.and.P@...> wrote:
>
> > English . a language in which the overwhelming majority
> >of dictionary entries have foreign etymologies.
>
> Two responses (I hope they are relevant to the wider discussion)
>
> (a) I don't think a description of a language should be determined
by the
> origin of its vocabulary. English is clearly a language influenced
from
> several major sources. But those influences have affected the basic
> language only slightly, and more in learned circles than in the ways
people
> really speak (e.g. you have to be taught not to split an infinitive
- real
> English does it naturally; or again, real English says "me and Jim
went to
> town"). Without evidence, I'm guessing vocabulary is the same: in
> educated circles, or on learned topics, a larger percentage of the
> vocabulary will be non-Germanic.
>
> (b) Actually, English people are remarkably unaware of foreign
origins of
> words; the words are so thoroughly naturalised. Compare this with
German,
> where you can get books of "foreign words" - the non-Germanic words
scream
> at you in a German text. In English they don't - they are adopted and
> absorbed without question, and no longer foreign. I doubt if any
English
> speaker thinks of "pyjamas" or "shampoo" or "information" as foreign
words.
>
> So I cannot agree there is an identity crisis in English.
>
> Peter
>
Well, I didn't mean that there is an identity crisis _now_ or _in
today's world_ in English, I meant that the lack of a solid belief in
one's origins and therefore identity in Anglo-Saxon times might have
been conducive to English absorbing foreign elements in its vocabulary
more readily than perhaps other languages, something that might have
begun in late OE times and accelerated steadily until the recent past.
I did say that I don't _really_ (or better logically) think that this
"manifold identity" was related to this future propensity of English,
but it just seems noteworthy that the language with probably the
highest proportion of foreign-origin vocabulary in the world should
have started with much ethnic confusion in its homeland.
Yes, in informal conversation the majority of words used are native
words, but in today's world most people are educated and require
education for their professions and lives, and hence even so mundane
items as newspapers have text that uses mostly words of foreign origin
(not to mention discussion groups like Cybalist).
Of course I know these foreign-origin words are completely naturalized
in English (though people can still talk about using "big words" which
are usually Latin- or Greek- origin words), but many have been
naturalized at the expense of native words or word formations that
could have been used instead. And anyway this basically supports my
point that English has always had a strong foreign element in its
identity (OK, I didn't say it in so many words in my last posting but
this is what I meant). I have to say here that when as a child of
about 7 or 8 I first read about the history of the English language,
and learned about the Norman conquest and the steady loss or
replacement of native vocabulary (of course also with enrichment from
outside sources too) that occurred ever since, I was moved and
regarded it as a tragedy for the English-speaking people. So ever
since I have had a bias in how I regard the modern English language.
This bias of mine sometimes comes to the surface, as it did in the
last posting. I hope you and others can forgive it, it's a part of my
psyche.
Andrew