> > > So if you're are applying Venetic to something else than the
> > language spoken in NE Italy, you need to distinguish it.
> >
> > No can do. There's an old tradition for calling unclassified bits
> > of language from Central Europe Venetic; I follow that, or
> > rather I follow its speakers themselves in calling them Veneti,
> > whether they live on the Adria, on the Baltic or somewhere in
> > between. You'll have to tell from context.
> Not so fast Mr. T. It's the duty of scholars to make their work
> clear. An' I pity da foo' that obfuscates for the hell of it. If all
> we're dealing with are unclassified bits of language, let's refer
> to them as such: Central European (IE) Remnant Languages or even
> CERL.
I shouldn't have called it 'unclassified bits of language from Central
Europe', most of it is Krahe's 'Old European' language of hydronymics.
Also, those river names are concentrated in Veneto/Carinthia in
Italy/Austria, Northern Spain, France, Netherlands / Western Germany
England and the south cast of the Baltic, not so much Central Europe.
Pokorny's view can be seen from his footnote to this entry:
'2. ak^-, ok^- 'scharf, spitz, kantig' und 'Stein'.
1. e/o- und a:-St.:
Npers. a:s (dehnstufig) 'Mühlstein'; gr. aké: 'Spitze', dehnstufig
ion. e:ké: ako:ké:, epidoratís, e:kmé: Hes., redupl. ako:ké: 'Spitze,
Schneide' (wie ago:gé: :`ágo:); nach Kretschmer KZ. 33, 567 und
Schwyzer Gr. Gr. I 348 gehört akoúo: 'höre' als *ak-ous- 'das Ohr
scharf habend' hierher, s. aber 1. keu; alb. athëtë 'herb, sauer';
lat. ace:re 'sauer sein', acidus ,sauer', acetum 'Essig';
mit o: mbr. convoc ar vilin 'den Mühlstein schärfen', cymr. hogi
'schärfen', acymr. ocoluin, ncymr. hogalen, mbret. hygo(u)lent nbret.
higolenn 'Wetzstein' (mit unklarem zweitem Bestandteil; der bret.
Vokalismus des Anlauts durch den Vorton zu erklären); mc. cyfogi 'sich
erbrechen, kämpfen', mit sekundärem yo-Suffix acymr. cemecid, ncymr.
cyfegydd (*k^om-ok^íyo-) 'Spitzhacke';
mit Dehnstufe: acymr. diauc, ncymr. diog, mbr. dieuc (*de:-a:ko-)
'faul', mcymr. ym-am-ogawr (*-a:k^a:-r) 'man regt sich, ist tätig'
(Loth RC. 45; 191) und mbr. eaug, nbret. eok 'reif, aufgeweicht'
(*eks-a:k^o), zu gall. exa:cum 'centaurion lepton' (Ernault Gloss.
MBret. 201); vgl. auch oben S. 5;
schwed. ag m. 'Sumpfgras, Cladium mariscus, Schneide' (*ak^ó-), mhd.
ag 'Barsch', egle, eglinc ds., nhd. schweiz. egel, Demin. egli,
aschwed. aghborre ds., vielleicht auch schwed. agg 'Groll, Haß', agga
'stechen, plagen', norw, dial. agge 'Zahn, Spitze' (*ak^o-kó- oder
expressive Gemination?), sowie (mit sekundärem germ. Ablaut a : u oder
aus *ak^uko- mit Assimilation des a an u?) norw. dial. ugg 'Stachel,
Ängstigung', schwed. dial. ugg 'Zacke, Zahn', anord. uggr 'Furcht',
norw. dial. ugge ;Flosse'; lit. akúotas 1) 'Granne', ãs^aka
(*ak^o-ka:) 'Fischgräte, Kleie' = wruss. osoka 'carex', apr. ackons
(*ak^o:no-) ds.
1) Die baltoslav. Formen mit k beweisen keine idg. Nebenform ak-,
sondern sind teilweise Lehnworte aus dem Veneto-Illyrischen, dessen
Gebiet von den Balten und Slaven überschichtet worden war (Kretschmer
Gl. 21, 115). Ebenso erklärt sich das g in ksl. igla oben S. 15.'
This is BTW the root I want to derive Venetic/Adria (and from that or
Baltic Venetic(?), loans in Germanic, NWBlock (and from there to Dutch
and German kant/Kante, 'Chattic', Celtic(?) cantus "wheel rim")) kant-
"edge, faction, (sub)tribe" from, which means it becomes of the form
*(a)kant- which means it fulfills the criterion to be part of
Schrijver's 'language of bird names'. BTW note also the gemination
(which makes it a part of Schrijver's 'language of geminates') and the
a/u 'ablaut' (which makes it part of Kuhn's 'ar-/ur-language').
Hope I haven't confused anyone.
Torsten