--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Jarrette" <anjarrette@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Vennemann of course want to tie the word in with Semitic:
> >
> >
> > Torsten
> >
>
> Comment: I find the Semitic evidence provided by Vennemann (which
> you listed in your posting) seems very compelling!
Me too (obviously).
> What about the idea
> which came up between me and Arnaud, that most agricultural terms in
> IE derive from Semitic sources? But it is a problem that the
> Semitic-origin idea presupposes the survival of Semitic-speaking
> "Atlantic" people well into the early Middle Ages, due to the
> unshifted consonants in the Germanic plough-words.
No, it presupposes that there was a people which could transfer it to
to the Germanic peoples, after the Grimm-shift. The Semitic speakers
didn't have to stay around themselves to do that.
Some years back, when I was in an Arnauld-phase I compiled this list
of words in *bh/p-r/l-
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Opr.html
based on the "water"-word
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Op.html
and the idea that the Middle East was not the cradle of civilization
and agriculture, but a stopover point for the civilization and
agriculture of the Far East, ie. the drowned continent of Sundaland
(that was after I read Oppenheimer's 'Out of Eden'). There is
something fishy about the polycentric (rather bicentric) view of world
history where bronze was invented twice, cereal cultivated twice,
animals domesticated twice.
> Nevertheless the
> evidence associated with the Latin city-preparation rites seems more
> indirect to me, and the association with "plough" could be a little
> forced?
Tell to the Romans. They took it rather seriously. Remember, those
rites were not fun and games to them. It was their equivalent of
quantum physics: cutting edge knowledge of the world. The idea of
using the pomerium for growing cereal would have been frowned upon, to
say the least. The kind of thing you'd expect from a traveling wizard
priest.
This website argues the Rhaetian was Semitic
http://www.federatio.org/mi_bibl/Toth_Brunner_Raetic.pdf
Be warned: they think Etruscan is Old Hungarian
Torsten