Re: Oedipus

From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 60349
Date: 2008-09-26

The ultimate root involved in these words is one of the more interesting roots in PIE.
 
In its pre-Pontic PIE form it was *kha-, which became *ka(:)- in post-Pontic PIE; its core meaning is 'bee'.
 
A arbitrary selection of typical actions and associated ideas produced derivatives like
 
1. *ka(: )-+n-, 'sing' ('hum');
 
2. and, of course *ka(: )-+d-, 'sting ('damage')';
i
3. and subjectively: 3. *ka(: )-+i-, 'burn(ing pain)';
 
4. while, mental 'pain' is built from the same root, stress-accented differently: *k^a(: )-+d- (**k-y-a(: )-+d-), producing metathesis;
 
5. this secondarily palatalized root also lives on in *k^a(:) -+t-, 'fight' ('hew'), and *k^a(:)-+d-, 'fall', both of which refer to a bee's diving to attack, I.e. descending rapidly and producing 'stinging' (cf. 'hail').
 
Though death is perhaps the ultimate 'punishment', 'kill' is not  a natural or legitimate extension of the core meaning of 'bee' � there is no "kill or bee killed'.
 
Patrick
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Oedipus


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Wordingham" <richard.wordingham@ ntlworld. com>
To: <cybalist@... s.com>
>
>> PIE kad = kill.

>>Pokorny 516.
>
> But the only meaning evidenced for *k^ad is 'fall' - and not even a
> causative in sight in the entry!
> Richard.
>
===========

in the PIE database of Starling.rinet. ru

Proto-IE: *kad-
Meaning: to injure, to harm
Old Indian: kadana- n.`destruction, killing, slaughter'; cakāda kadanam `to
kill or hurt'
Old Greek: hom. kekadṓn `beraubend', ft. kekadḗsei̯ `er wird berauben',
aor. kekadē^sai̯ `вредить etc. (`blápsai, kakō^sai, phéisasthai,
sterē^sai', Hsch.); hüpò ... kekádonto `sie wichen zurück' Hom.),
ekekǟ́dei̯ (Konjektur) = hüpe<ke>khōrḗkei' Hsch., {apokadéō = asthenéō
Hsch. - wanted!}; {kǟ́dō `verletze, schädige' -wanted!}
Latin: calamitās, -tis f. `Schaden; Hagelschlag, Kornbrand, Misswachs;
Unheil, Verderben'; incolumis, -e `unversehrt, heil'; cadamitās (Mar.
Victorin. gr. VI 8:15) = calamitās
Russ. meaning: вредить

I'm not sure Greek really has its place here.
And maybe Latin cada:ver could belong here.
Latin cada:ver could just mean "killed" instead of "fallen".

Arnaud