Re: More on Italian briga, brigare, and brigante

At 4:53:29 AM on Thursday, September 18, 2008, tgpedersen
wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> <BMScott@...> wrote:

>> At 1:49:18 PM on Wednesday, September 17, 2008,
>> tgpedersen wrote:

>> [...]

>>> Yes, that's what the dictionaries say.
>>> But look at this:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_rig
>>> Bark and brig are principally square-rigged.
>>> Barkentine and brigantine are hybrid square-rigged and
>>> fore-and-aft rigged.
>>> So it would seem those endings mean something like
>>> "-like", and that 'brigantine' is derived from 'brig', not
>>> the other way round.

>> The explanation is much simpler and much more plausible.

> How?

>> Originally <brig> was simply a colloquial abbreviation of
>> <brigantine>;

> Documentation? OED doesn't provide that.

Look at the dates of attestation of <brig> and <brigantine>.
Look at the large number of English monosyllables derived by
clipping at about the same time, some of which are even
mentioned in the OED article.

>> as the OED explains, 'while the full name has
>> remained with the unchanged brigantine, the shortened name
>> has accompanied the modifications which have subsequently
>> been made in rig, so that a brig is now

>> (b) A vessel with two masts square-rigged like a ship's
>> fore- and main-masts, but carrying also on her main-mast
>> a lower fore-and-aft sail with a gaff and boom.'
>>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brig

> 'In nautical terms, a brig is a vessel with two
> square-rigged masts'

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigantine

> 'In sailing, a brigantine is a vessel with two masts, at
> least one of which is square rigged.'

> So a brig is 'more square-rigged' than a brigantine.

So? That appears to be entirely consistent with the
quotation from the OED. By the way:

OED s.v. <brigantine>:

orig. A small vessel equipped both for sailing and rowing,
swifter and more easily manoeuvred than larger ships,
and hence employed for purposes of piracy, espionage,
reconnoitring, etc., and as an attendant upon larger ships
for protection, landing purposes, etc.

A two-masted vessel, carrying square sails on her
foremast, which is rigged like a ship's foremast; her main
or after-mast is the main-mast of a schooner, and in
Falconer's time, like that mast, carried a square topsail:
but is now entirely fore-and-aft-rigged.

Brian