Re[2]: [tied] Nori

From: Brian M. Scott
Message: 59976
Date: 2008-09-11

At 2:45:06 PM on Thursday, September 11, 2008, tgpedersen
wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> <BMScott@...> wrote:

>> At 7:28:45 AM on Thursday, September 11, 2008, tgpedersen
>> wrote:

>> [...]

>>> BTW norsk "Norwegian" is supposedly from ON norðrænn,
>>> which goes back to ON norð-r "north", which contains the
>>> root *nr.- "down, below", which doesn't make much sense.

>> That's a matter of opinion. Beekes s.v. <énertHe(n)> has
>> an attractive explanation for the association
>> below-left-north:

>> A good formal agreement to <vérteros> gives Italic in
>> Umbr. <nertru> 'sinistro', Osc. <nertra-k> 'a sinistra'.
>> One compares further Germanic words for 'north', e. g.
>> OWNo. <norðr> n., which requires zero grade: PGm.
>> *núrþra-, IE *nr.tro-. Basic meaning: 'region where the
>> sun is below', or 'left side of someone who prays when
>> turning to the east'.

>> The directional association (but on the other side) is
>> also found in OIr <dess> 'right, south' (cognate with Lat.
>> <dexter>).

> But cf. PGmc. *winistra-, Da. venstre "left". That would
> make north the preferred direction.

I'll go with Ordbog over det Danske Sprog:

komp.-dannelse til stammen i I. Ven; egl.: "den
gunstigere" (vist opr. eufem. betegnelse for den side, der
betragtedes som den uheldige)

>>> Now consider this proposal:
>>> Norther- "at the Nori"
>>> Easter- "at the Aestii"
>>> Wester- "at the Wends"
>>> Souther- "at the Sueui"

>> They're all pretty bad phonologically,

> The classical ones are pretty bad semantically.

I disagree; 'north' is the only one that offers the
slightest difficulty semantically. Association of east,
west, and south with dawn, evening, and sun is very natural.

>> but this last one is especially so: the 'south' word
>> clearly had a nasal: *sunþ-.

[...]

> Da. sønder-, adv. sønden. If we assume a connection
> between Sueui and Svear, as some do (making the Svear
> immigrants against native Götar), the -n- in the adj. Sw.
> svensk, Jordanes suehans, MLat. sueones. matches the -n-
> of *sunþ-.

ON <Svíar>, <Svíþjóð>, <svænskr>, runic <sveþiuþ>,
<suiþiuþu>, runic Danish <-sweaR>, Latin <Suiones>
(Tacitus), <Sueones> (Adam of Bremen), <Suehans> (Jordanes),
<Suetidi> (Jordanes), and OE <Swe:oland> and <Swe:on> are
clearly from something with initial *sw-, and the /n/ is
clearly not part of the root; the 'south' words are equally
clearly from somthing in *sunþ-, whose *n is integral to the
root.

Brian