From: tgpedersen
Message: 59835
Date: 2008-08-22
>I'm getting senile. I already gave those references.
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "A." <xthanex@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "indravayu" <sonno3@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Or is the reconstructed Proto-
> > > > Celtic term based solely upon Nodens?
> > >
> > > It's based on the Latinized Nodens as well as Irish Nuado (gen.
> > > Nuadat), Middle Welsh Nudd and perhaps Old Welsh *Nu[d]int
> > > (Latinized as Nu[d]inti in an early medieval stone inscription)
> > > and Old Breton Nodent (if the first element of this name is not
> > > actually an entirely different word cognate with Welsh nawdd,
> > > Irish snad- "protect").
> > >
> > > - Chris Gwinn
> > >
> >
> > My thanks again!
> > So the reconstructed Proto-Celtic term is based entirely upon the
> > various different versions of the personal names Nodens, Nuado,
> > Nudd ... all which are basically the same figure. Do I understand
> > correctly that there are no other terms which stem from the Proto-
> > Celtic *noudont/*noudant , as in no impersonal terms such as a
> > noun to describe an item or a verb to describe an action such as
> > (hypothetically) using or fishing?
>
> Dansk Etymologisk Ordbog:
> 'nyde v.
> ODa niude, nytæ, Nw nyte, Sw. njuta, ON njóta, OS niotan,
> OHG niozan, Germ geniessen, OE ne:otan,
> from PGmc *neutan "enjoy";
> older meaning in Goth ganiutan "catch", meaning-extension via
> "possess". From PIE neu-d- "catch something desirable, employ" like
> Goth nuta "catcher, fisher", Lith. naudà "usefulness, gain,
> property", nau~dyti "desire" ...
>
> ...
> I nytte c.,
> ODa nyttæ, Nw nytte, Sw nytta.
> Most likely mix-up of several forms. ODa nyt, nøt, OSw nyt,
> ON nyt f., gn. nytjar, MLG niette, OHG nuzzi, nuzza, Grem. Nutzen,
> OE nytt;
> from PGmc *nu:tio:- f., in ablaut relationship to nyde ["enjoy"]
> Regularly corresponds to this ODa nyt, nøt in nom., but e.g. in gen.
> one should have had nyttiæ, nyttæ, (cf. to II nytte). From this or
> from (influence of) Low German one might have the nord. forms in
> -tt-. Cf. nyttig
>
> II nytte v.,
> ODa nyttiæ, nyttæ, Nw nytte, OSw nytia, Sw nyttja, ON nytja, MLG
> nutten, OHG nuzzen, Germ nützen,;
> from PGmc *nutjan, in ablaut relationship to 'nyde'. The Da.
> (and Nw.) form might have been influenced by or loaned from MLG.
> The Da. form however seems mainly to have arisen from ODa
> nytæ "enjoy" (see nyde) with analogical reshaping after pret. nytti
> (cf. II knytte, skøtte)
> ...
> II nød: "necessity, dire straits",
> ODa nødh, Nw nø(d), nau, OSw nøþ, Sw nöd, ON nauð(r) f., Got nauþs
> "coercion", OS no:d, OHG no:t, Germ Not, OE ne:ad, ni:ed, Eng need,
> from PGmc *nauði-. PIE n&u-ti-, whence also OPr nautin acc. "need",
> on the root see narhval.
> ...
> nøde "force, persuade";
> ODa nøthæ, Nw nø(de), OSw nøþa (Sw now only in ppp nödd "forced (by
> circumstances)", ON neyða, Goth nauþjan, OS no:dian, MLG no:den, OHG
> no:tian, nöten, Germ. nöten, OE ni:edan, Eng need ...
> '
>
> I wonder if some of the river names in *not- are related
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/50509
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/50510
> and see 08not.jpg in 'Placenames untouched by Grimm, maps 08-12, 16'
> in 'Maps from Udolph ' in the File section.
> Good fishing rivers?
>
> In spite of the explanations given I think the existence of a root
> with and without gemination points to 'Chattic', at least for the
> Germanic part.