Re: Scythian tribal names: Paralatai

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "david_russell_watson" <liberty@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I don't recognize *asagaina-, and it would have been nice,
> > and normal practice, to indicate its language, but, if it's
> > indeed derived from *h2ek^-, it's likely better attributed
> > to *h2ek^- with some suffix other than *-men-, saving us the
> > bother of such gyrations as you require to eliminate it in
> > the end.
>
> I'm not the one who went to the trouble of eliminating *m:
> Indo-Iranian *as^(m)an- 'stone, sky (as dome/vault of stone)'
> to Skt as'(m)an-, Av asan-, asman-. The der. from *H2ak^m(o)n-
> (my *xakYmo:n.) is already standard. It probably came from
> kmn > km,n before a vowel, or something similar, with m, > a
> regularly.

Oh I see now: your afterdotted 'm' represents a nasal
sonant.

> > > If there was no intermediate N stage, why *asagaina-
> > > instead of *asanín(a)-, etc?
> >
> > Tell me your basis for *asagaina- and possibly I can answer,
> > though, as I say, I very much doubt that the suffix *-men-
> > is involved.

So *-men- is involved afterall, seeing now the basis of
your "*asagaina-".

> As I wrote before
> (an excerpt):
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@> wrote:
>
> > I'd also say NN combos, including those in later analogical
> > creations, remained. Neither -mn.V- nor -mYn.V- was reduced
> > in PIE. Various branches had some changes including:
> >
> > *dhéxYmó(n.)+ /
> > *dhóxYmó(n.)+ '(a) placing on/together, heap'
> > *dhóxYmn.ko+, -ik+, -id+ 'cord, rope' > fu:nis, tho:miGx
> >
> > *kn.,mYn., > *kUmen
> > *kn.,mYn.ixYn.o+ 'made of blocks of wood' > Slavic
> > *kUni:go+ 'book, etc.'
> >
> > *xakYmo:n.
> > *xakYmn.ixYn.o+ 'made of stone' > OP
> > atha(n)gaina-

Oh, 'athangaina'. I should have been able to guess.
Although that form wouldn't ascend to *asagaina-.
Old Persian's voiceless dental fricative developed
from a Proto-Indo-Iranian affricate by a different
route from that producing 's' in Avestan.

See how it creates confusion when you present your
own personal reconstructions as if standard ones?

Now I'll try to answer your question, admitting that
my answer isn't an authoritive one: O.Pers. 'athanga-'
exists on its own, and '-aina-' was still a productive
suffix in Old Persian, as far as I know, so there's
no reason to trace the word all the way back to Proto-
Indo-European or even Proto-Iranian. It was coined
much later. Clearly O.Pers. 'athanga-' reflects the
Iranian reflex of the 'stone' word with an additional
suffix, not something requiring a novel set of sound
changes to derive out of P.I.E. *h2ek^mon- alone.

By the way, is there really an 'asagaena-' in Avestan,
or cognate in any other Iranian language, to legitimize
your suggestion of a Proto-Iranian "*asagaina-"?

David