Re: Scientist's etymology vs. scientific etymology

From: stlatos
Message: 59149
Date: 2008-06-09

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@> wrote:

> > I'm more partial to an explanation including:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, mkapovic@ wrote:
> >
> > > Lat. far and faba are not very conviencing in proving an IE *a
> since in
> > > Latin a/o difference is not very stabile after labials, that is
> *o tends
> > > to change to /a/ (mare, ca:seus, canis, parie:s, margo: etc.), cf.
> > > Schrijver 1991.
> > >
> > > Mate
>
> Latin <mare> and <lacus> go together in having /a/ where Celtic has
> reflexes of /o/. Both these geomorphic terms were most likely
> borrowed from a pre-Italic IE language which changed inherited /o/
> to /a/. Latin <canis> can only be shoehorned into the model of Greek
> <kúo:n> etc. with a whole slew of ad-hoc assumptions;

Nothing here is ad hoc; they apply to many words with o>a, not just one.

> Burrow's
> derivation from *kan- 'small' (TrPhS 81:155-64) is much simpler and
> better. Any greenhorn can find minimal pairs (portus/partus,
> mors/Mars) showing that the alleged instability of the Latin a/o
> distinction after labials is a bunch of baloney.

The rule was not necessarily completely regular. Ma:rs had long a.

> > In any event, I think the *kWe in '4, 5' are the result of 'and'
> in
> > counting 1-10 being analyzed as part of the numbers. If so, no
> > *kWtru+, etc., existed.
>
> Oscan <trutum> 'quartum', for *ptrutum, shows that the zero-grade
> stem did indeed exist. The form <Ptroni(us)> from the Ager Paelignus
> shows that Paelignian also had *ptru-, without dropping the p-;
> likewise there is an Etruscan <Ptruni>, the gentilicium borrowed from
> one of these conservative P-Italic languages.
>
> Douglas G. Kilday

If schwa sec. existed in PIE, and so accounted for the oddities
observed for 'four' in many branches, it would have to have been
deleted by one of the many V>0 changes in Italic Languages.
Therefore, e>0 would be just as likely as schwa>0.