From: Rick McCallister
Message: 58896
Date: 2008-05-27
>.---------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Mensagem original ----
> De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
> Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Enviadas: Terça-feira, 27 de Maio de 2008 14:32:04
> Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Lusitanian --Bell Beaker?
>
>
>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@... com> wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@... s.com, "dgkilday57"
> > <dgkilday57@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@... s.com, Rick
> McCallister
> > <gabaroo6958@ >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Reig Vidal over at Substrate, explained that
> > > > Lusitanian is linked archeologically to the
> Bell
> > > > Beaker Culture.
> > > > I'm not sure if he's on this list but I hope,
> so
> > he
> > > > can elaborate.
> > > > Does anyone know that this link to be certain?
> > > > As we know, Lusitanian resembles both Celtic
> and
> > > > Italic but, unlike Celtic, maintained /p/.
> Until
> > Reig
> > > > posted, my guess was that it came from
> somewhere
> > > > around the Alps, perhaps N. Italy before
> passing
> > into
> > > > Spain and that it was probably the same
> language
> > that
> > > > Coromines referred to as Sorotaptic and others
> > > > (including Lapesa, I think --unless he was
> > citing
> > > > someone else) termed Ligurian or Illyrian.
> > > > Reig explained that Bell Beaker culture was
> from
> > N.
> > > > Germany, Benelux, etc. and that's what I had
> > seen but
> > > > Wikipedia has it all over W Europe.
> > > > The dates are about a 1,000 years earlier than
> > what I
> > > > would have expected for Lusitanian. Given its
> > > > closeness to Celtic and Italic, I would have
> > expected
> > > > that it entered shortly before Celtiberian was
> > > > established in Iberia. Maybe c. 1,000 BCE.
> > > > I'll you all answer this
> > > >
> > >
> > > Bell-Beaker culture spread so rapidly across
> > western Europe that the
> > > starting point is hard to determine. If it
> > started in the Low
> > > Countries, and if we accept Kitson's deduction
> > that the Beaker Folk
> > > spoke "Alteuropäisch" , the Indo-European
> language
> > of Krahe's river-
> > > name system, then we might expect Kuhn's
> > "Nordwestblöckisch" to be
> > > the language spoken by the descendents of those
> > Bell-Beaker tribes
> > > who stayed at home, the NWB enclave being
> overrun
> > first by Celtic,
> > > then by Germanic languages.
> >
> > AFAIK, there aren't any trace of Celts in the
> > Netherlands. NWB must
> > have been overrun by Germanic.
> >
> > Torsten
> >
> >
> In this case, I think the definition of "Low
> Countries" is broader than just the Netherlands.
> --also Belgium and N. France
>
>
>http://mitoblogos.blogspot.com/search/label/etimologia
> Portuguese, like Spanish and Northern Italian,
> "hates" L-clusters... would it proof some substratal
> source? (cf. Cl- > Ch [kl- > c^ > s^]; -Vch- > -lh-
> [ -kl- > -l^-]
>
> JS Lopes
>
>Portuguese and Basque also hate intervocalic /VlV/.