From: tgpedersen
Message: 58517
Date: 2008-05-15
>http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/34629
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@> wrote:
> >
> > At 5:13:23 PM on Wednesday, May 14, 2008, Miguel Carrasquer
> > Vidal wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 14 May 2008 13:20:07 -0700 (PDT), "Joao S. Lopes"
> > > <josimo70@> wrote:
> >
> > >>Does anyone know the correct etymology of Flanders and
> > >>Fleming? I'm finding many references about Flanders
> > >>(Vlaanderen) meaning "low land", or "flooded land". I'd
> > >>like to know the Germanic original form. Vlaa < *Fla: I
> > >>can relate to flood, fluot, flo:d, but the ending
> > >>-deren...
> >
> > > According to Wikipedia (without references):
> >
> > > Vlaanderen, Vlaming en Vlaams zijn afgeleid van flâm, een
> > > Ingveoonse vorm van het Germaanse flauma en dit betekent
> > > "overstroomd gebied". Deze etymologie lijkt de enige die
> > > taalkundig mogelijk is en klopt geografisch uitstekend. Deze
> > > betekenis is zeer toepasselijk voor het Vlaamse kustgebied
> > > dat tussen de 3de en de 8ste eeuw tweemaal per dag
> > > overstroomde door de Noor dzee.
> > > Een inwoner van dit overstroomd gebied is dus een Flaming,
> > > het adjectief Flamis. Door bij de stam flâm het suffix
> > > -andra te voegen, bekomt men in datief meervoud Flaumandrum,
> > > verkort tot Flamandrum en uiteindelijk Flandrum. [...]
> >
> > > Translated:
> >
> > > "Vlaanderen (Flanders), Vlaming (Fleming) and Vlaams
> > > (Flemish) are derived from *flâm, an Ingvaeonic form of
> > > Germanic *flaumaz [PIE *plou-mos --mcv], meaning "flooded
> > > area". This etymology appears to be the only one that is
> > > linguistically possible and geographically accurate. The
> > > semantics are a perfect fit for the Flemish coastal area
> > > which between the 3rd and 8th centuries was flooded by the
> > > North Sea twice a day.
> > > An inhabitant of this flooded area is a flâming, the
> > > adjective is flâmisk."
> >
> > > Apart from a few typos in the original text, the above
> > > seems plausible enough. But the following passage looks
> > > like it was summarized from a scientific source by someone
> > > who didn't fully understand what he was summarizing:
> >
> > > "By adding to the stem flâm the suffix -andra, one gets a
> > > dative plural Flaumandrum, shortened to Flamandrum and
> > > eventually to Flandrum."
> >
> > > I don't know what kind of suffix -andra is, and I don't
> > > know what the Dat.pl. has to do with anything.
> >
> > <http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flandre> offers a compact
> > version of the same etymology, citing Jean-Jacques Jespers,
> > Dictionnaire des noms de lieux en Wallonie et à Bruxelles,
> > Racine, Bruxelles, 2005.
> >
> > <Flaumandrum> terres (suff. anc. germ. -andrum) inondées
> > (anc. germ. <flauma>, frison <flâm>)[1]. Le mot désigne
> > les marais côtiers et de l'estuaire de l'Escaut.
> >
> > Many Gmc. place-names survive in what was originally the
> > dative, owing to frequent use after dative prepositions; if
> > the underlying place-name was plural ('flooded lands'), a
> > dative plural is very reasonable. I don't recognize the
> > supposed place-name suffix, though.
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/34611
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/34613
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/31455