--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Peter P" <roskis@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > So, assignment:
> >
> > What kind of scenario would permit both
> > xx substrate -> Finn kansa, Gmc. *xanso: / Saami guos'si -> Gmc.
*gasti-
> > etc?
> >
> >
> > Torsten
> >
>
> Then one would also like to explain Permian cognates...
>
> Zyrian 'goz' and Votyak 'kuz'.
>
> I don't think that it is certain that Fin. 'kansa' < *hansa:,
although
> it is a likely possibility.
>
> We should also look at Fin. 'kanssa' - with < kansa, which falls
more
> in line with the Permian meanings of - pair.
>
> Where is Jouppe when we need him?
>
> Peter P
>
The etymology Gmc. *xanso: => finnic, saami & permic without
irregularity in the sound correspondances on the Finno-Permian side
comes very close to a chronological paradox and one should probably
therefore assume <= pre-Grimm paleo-gmc *kanso: or even older *kansa:
in order to have the word borrowed into Pre-Finnic well in time to
travel east and participate in permic sound changes. Even if Permic
was a coincidental false cognate this is clearly a loan BCE due to
the Saami evidence.
By the way the Saami cognate was clearly wrong in my table, the word
I had recorded may rather be a later borrowing from Proto-Finnic. The
source of the error was SSA, which is a bit unreliable in loan
etymologies. I corrected the table.
Fi. kanssa (postposition: 'with, in the company of') < kans(a)+ssa
(contracted under weak "stress") or perhaps < kans(a)+na? seems a
younger development to me due to the cluster -nss- and will therefore
not contribute to the etymology of the older word.
Some value this derivative may have in that it may bear independent
testimony of some Late/Middle-Proto-Finnic meaning of the word it is
derived from.
The meaning of 'guest, stranger' in Saami and 'pair, man and wife' in
Permic could easily be parallelled by the meaning of the postposition
kanssa 'with, in the company of' and provide the key to understanding
the semantic history of this word.
But then again the semantics of Late-Proto Finnic (and the later
borrowed Saami gadde) matches Germanic better.
The more I look on this equation I come to think there is a more
economic solution, considering the mysterious origin of *xanso: the
wide distribution on the Finno-Permian side and the indication of an
older primary meaning slightly divergent from Germanic:
Paleo-Germanic may have borrowed this word from Middle Proto-Finnic
before Grimm's shift.
Jouppe