--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tolgs001" <george_st@...> wrote:
>
> >"tolgs001" <george_st@> wrote:
>
> [fullquote deleted; the forever posting of fullquotes is ignoring
> the netiquette; one ought to abide by the recommendations
> contained in the netiquette]
>
> >REMINDER-2: George, For "gyula" = a high nobility rank "
> >remains to quote the ATTESTED Turkic Gyula in Alba-Iulia
>
> All historians regardless of nationality and faith deem the Gilas
> as Turkic (or Turkish) -- whether Onogur kinship of the king, or
> whether belonging to the Petchenek branch of the Oguz Turks.
> No real Hungarian historian deem them as Hungarians in the
> sense of Magyar.
>
> Have a look at three citations by three Romanian contemporary
> authors. The texts contain the names of the medieval European
> authors relevant for the "Gyula" rulers of Transylvania. The main
> versions pertaining to Gyula's ethnicity: (a) Tuhutum's descendants
> (i.e. Onogurs); (b) other origin, but from the same Onogur upper-
> class (Kavar extraction also possible); (c) Petchenek.
>
> No one of them dared advance the hypothesis "rex Iulus" were a
> Romanian, i.e., neither the book edited in 1988 by army
> general-lieutenant dr. Ilie CEAUSESCU (a historian), dictator
Nicolae
> Ceausescu's own brother! (The quotation number two in the text
> with the URL below.)
>
> To avoid abusing this mailing-list, I copied the excerpts here:
>
> http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhpdb6qv_0gxt8t94k
>
> George
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GEORGE your affirmation was that is a common noun
"gyula" = a high nobility rank " attested in some turkic language
I ask you to quote such a "nobility rank" attested in Alba Iulia
because this was your assertion.
THIS IS A TRICK.==> so you are not able to quote any
ATTESTED 'nobility rank' named 'gyula'
You use to make tricks ....
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I didn't say that Gyula was Romanian I said that the Name Gyula is
originated from the Latin Iulius/Iulianus based on the Albanoid
transformation yu > gy Is all I have said.
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In place of this "you quote from a quote" (come at least with the
original quote!) that:
"Þara era împãrþitã în opt provincii: Irtim (Ertem), Tzur (Cior),
Gylas (Yula), Kulpei, Haroboi (Karabay), Talmat (Tolmaci), Hopon
(Kapan), Tapon (Cioban)."
"Gyla de Jos (Habouxigyla)"
How do you know the original ETYMOLOGIES of the names of these
counties...
The pecenegi are just arriving there...so for sure that they have
adopted and adapted some OLDER toponims as the Romans did too in
Dacia or elsewhere etc...
TO assume that these provinces names are pure Turkic names is like to
say that all the toponims in England have an English Origin....:)
---------------------------------------------------------------
There was a local ruler in Transylvania named Gyula (Personal name)
This is for sure true.
Your name is George the name of George Bush is George too...
Personal names not always indicate the ethnicity of that person.
So their etymology is obscure too
(and there are also persons that changed their original name...:))
Now to suppose that 'a Personal Name' was taken from a 'nobility rank'
this is a pure speculation (I would say a poor one) => is like to
assume that a king, choose the Personal Name 'King' for him or for
his child
In addition do you know that this Gyula was Orthodox?
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You come back and quote a book, where an X-author make some
assumptions regarding the Etimology of some county names ...like you
make too here...this author is far to be at least, a known one, in
the Romanian History...but doesn't matter...all I can tell you is
that his assumptions are very poor assumptions...see my feedback here
regardig them
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BUT YOU TOLD ME IN ADVANCE THAT "there was an attested common
word 'gyula' meaning 'a nobility rank' atested in a Turkic Language
in sec X in Alba Iulia "
This for sure is a FALSE statement. Where is that quotation?
You can with the name of some counties and with a Personal Name Gyula?
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Now I see also that in place to quote a Turkic word you come with
three variants a) b) c) (why not also d) e) f) g) h) i) too..?)
"The main
versions pertaining to Gyula's ethnicity:
(a) Tuhutum's descendants (i.e. Onogurs);
(b) other origin, but from the same Onogur upper-class (Kavar
extraction also possible);
(c) Petchenek. "
As I told you regarding, Mara and Iza etymologies, the possible Pro-
Hungarian Etymologies are:
1. Hungarian, if not possible,
2. also Hungarian , but 'from other tribes etc...'
(like: 'but from the same Onogur upper-class' :))
3. Hunic (->they like Attila :)), if not possible ,
4. Turkic , (-> they like: 'Petchenek' :)), if not possible
5. Iranian , if not possible
6. Sumerian :), if not possible ,
7. Slavic, if not possible ,
8. Germanic, if not possible ,
9. Unknown...:)
(so never Albanian (not to be linked with Dacians, by some) and never
Romanian or Latin (->just to be sure, not to be Balkan Latin )
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Marius