From: alexandru_mg3
Message: 57864
Date: 2008-04-23
>This is another folk Hungarian etymology
> >Oash & Maramuresh zones are very conservatives regions of Romania
> >being isolated somehow from the rest of the country (see how
> >specific is the folklor in that Regions)
>
> These, esp. Oas (which is the Romanian conversion of the Hungarian
> name Havas /'hO-vOS/ with the meaning of "Nevada" both in the sense
> of "covered with snow" and "mountain" (Muntenia is called Havas-
> alf�ld)) were region of heavy exposure to Hungarian influence
> and language.
> >Also 'we find' River Names in that zone like Iza and Mara andand for Iza and Mara what are the Hungarian, Sumerian or Turkic
> >Mountains names like Gut^ai (for sure not Hungarians Names...
> >even you would like to be :))
> What the heck prompts you draw such "intelligent" conclusionsBecause you repeat exactly the Hungarian folk etymologies 'of
> as to imagine you were talking to a philo-Hungarian?
> > The right way to search is the source of Hungarian word:So is a Loan in Hungarian.
> > 1. - that word for sure is not an inherited one.
>
> Seemingly neither inherited by Hungarians. So?
> > 2. - is close with Ossetian avg but I see no way to obtain[...]
> > an /u/ from an /a/
> >3. - there is a Romanian word /uy'ag~a/ when /uy&/ means 'water'unfortunately for you the word inside uyag& is uy& 'water' not
>
> This is a non sequitur. Bottle happen to carry water, indeed.
> But that's all. Uiaga does not mean "glass", uiaga means only
> bottle (well, made of glass, too). There, where they use the
> regional word uiaga, bottle rarely carry water, they mostly carry
> brandy.
> >in Albanian uj& means 'water' and /noyan/ means 'imense waters'in Romanian
>So noian 'imense waters' is not linked with uj&?
> Not only: it also means precipice; and a great number of things
> or of beings or of phenomena. There's no semantic link to noian
> either.
> toiag "walking stick; staff; club" (even the phonetics fitsWhy you don't publish an ILR in place of Rosetti, if you know
> better :-)).
> >===> seems that you have ignored this.'various reasons'....so vague...
>
> I didn't ignore them, coz I read your posting. But your assumption
> has no substance for various obvious reasons, especially semantic
> and phonetic ones. (
> >if apa-ka: is a reasonable formation for Ossetianapaka: is the Proto-Ossetic form: apa+ka:
> >why uya-ga: not to be a reasonable formation for an Albanoid
> >areal?
>
> Then be so kind as to explain how on earth has apaka (what a
> darned coincidence of a word evoking "fetele de la APACA")
> evolved as uiaga without a missing link �veg.uj& ,ajag&, nojan are not from apa seems that this is still unclear
> >P>S> George, "my guess" is that the Hungarian Gyula is a loanedfrom
> > Iuliu(s) ... Do you know why we have /yu/ > /gy/ in Hungarian? :)is of
>
> The most probable explanation for gyula (this is the Hungarian
> spelling, but the real one might have been djila ori yula), which
> was a high nobility rank (along with k�nd� and karka or harka),
> Turkic origin, and was "reinforced" in the inceptionGeorge, Gyula is obviously from Iuliu(s)
> period of the Hungarian state west of the Carpathians by the
> Petchenegs (a.k.a. Patzinaks, Bisseni etc.), a Turkish
> people of the Oguz kind. The Hungarian confederation had to leave
> Ukraine because of the Petchenegs, but soon the Petchenegs
> themselves had to leave because of other Turks who chased them.
> Numerous Petchenegs were settled in Hungary, esp. along the
> frontiers, becoming the (so to speak) frontier police of Hungary.
> But initially, for a while, in the 10th-11th century the Petchenegs
> were the facto bosses of Transylvania, and made the capital on
> the ruins of Apulum -> B�lgrad = Gyulafehervar = Yula's white
> fortress = in Latin Alba Iulia.
>
> At the same time, it was the name of approx. three
> Petcheneg chieftains, or princelings, if you prefer. Latinized
> "rex Iulus". In the then frontier regions of Hatzeg, Fagaras,
> Barsa, and the Szeklerlands as well as along the rivers Tarnave
> and in the region of Bistritza-Nasaud there are quite numerous
> toponyms, hydronyms and oronyms that bear their vague memory.
> Even in Maramures. Often, such linguistic relics are mixed up
> with those of Cumans who came in the 2nd half of the 11th century.
> After all, another Turkish group (I prefer Turkish instead of
> Turkic for obvious reasons, esp. since cybalist is a linguistics
> list).
>
> One of the best source pertaining to the East-West movement of
> Petchenegs is De administrando imperii by Constantine the 7th
> Porphyrogenitus (who wrote the first details referring to them
> in 952 or so; he was paid visits by some Hungarian and Alba
> Iulia "dukes", the latter getting from Constantinople a Greek
> bishop (sent by the Patriarch), namely Hierotheos.
>
> Seemingly, the Transylvanian Petchenegs were of the Yula and
> Chor kind (two of their tribes). During the time of Constantine,
> Yula lived in Moldavia, on the banks of the river Pruth. Along
> the Dnestr, the tribe Irtim/Ertem, and near the Danube the tribe
> called Kopon/Kapan/Kaban. AFAIK, in Transylvania there is at least
> one toponym containing Tchor (in Hungarian spelling -csor).
>
> George
>
> spelling, but the real one might have been djila ori yula), whichis of Turkic origin"
> was a high nobility rank (along with k�nd� and karka or harka),