--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tolgs001" <george_st@...> wrote:
> But there is a thing of utmost importance, there is an obstacle in
> the path of speculations as to whether uiagä might be of a
different,
> "substrate" origin. Namely, the word uiagä /u-'ya-g&/ and its
southern
> variant iagä (esp. in the county where Oradea is its capital and
the
> surrounding counties, esp. to the South) are in use only regionally.
> I.e., only in subdialects spoken in north-western regions of
Romania,
> that were for at least eight centuries under heavy influence by the
> Hungarian language.
The regionalism argumentation is not a direct argument.
/druete/ and /buc/ are for sure very specific regional words in
Romanian : but it doesn't mean that are not substratual (Rosetti
quote both with good arguments)
Oash & Maramuresh zones are very conservatives regions of Romania
being isolated somehow from the rest of the country (see how specific
is the folklor in that Regions)
Also 'we find' River Names in that zone like Iza and Mara and
Mountains names like Gut^ai (for sure not Hungarians Names...even you
would like to be :))
The right way to search is the source of Hungarian word:
1. - that word for sure is not an inherited one.
2. - is close with Ossetian avg but I see no way to obtain
an /ü/ from an /a/
In addition the Ossetian avg could well be 'a false friend' and
to have been still apaka, apka or apga around 200-700 AC when the
Hungarians was (supposed) to be close to them in that zone.
Could somebody can help, with the timeframes for Ossetian
changes from /apaka:/ to /avg/?
3. - there is a Romanian word /uy'ag~a/ when /uy&/ means 'water'
in Albanian and /noyan/ means 'imense waters' in Romanian ===> seems
that you have ignored this.
So such a formation is clear like the crystal there is no
doubt on this (even maybe is finally is a pure coincidence...but what
are the chances to be a pure coincidence? (and I say this more for
Piotr than for you)...
Very very small everybody honest will say :
if apa-ka: is a reasonable formation for Ossetian
why uya-ga: not to be a reasonable formation for an Albanoid
areal?
Marius
P>S> George, "my guess" is that the Hungarian Gyula is a loaned from
Iuliu(s) ...Do you know why we have /yu/ > /gy/ in Hungarian? :)